Lots of Savage Hate at Snipershide

[stevenc23]

Snipershide and this forum are my 2 favorite to browse. I know everyone has their favorite brand but the savage hate over at Sniperhide irks me.
In the thread about upgrading the new Ruger Precision Rifle, the Savage bashing is in full force:

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5514-bolt-action-rifles/14286445-ruger-upgrade-path?s=541&page=2

"There is a reason you don't see high end Savages beyond a few one offs that are done"
"a Savage can never compete with the pluses when you consider what the Ruger brings to the table."
"The Ruger is a much better option than a Savage by a long run"
Barrel swap is easier with the Ruger

Nothing against the Ruger. The base rifle at a $1,000 is a GREAT deal, but to say nothing compares to a $2,000 upgraded Ruger is just nonsense.

Just had to vent, OK I feel better now

[Robinhood]

I tend to agree that the Rugger is a better gun over all. When the aftermarket picks up Savage will be hurting. The RPR is cheaply made and in my mind is not the quality of the Savage BA but over all the American design is not bad for a cheap gun.

Side Bolt Release and trigger design are two improvements IMHO. Interchangeable barrels with simple headspacing, conventional truing applies.

[Kadams1563]

Ok with the Ruger your buying a complete rifle ready to go. Most people are just using Savage actions. So there isn't really a comparison. Tell me how the Savage action is not quality? Or for that matter look how many rifles shoot 1/2 MOA factory?

People seemed to be tied up with money equals quality most of the time. In the case the Savage actions are fine and I do not believe they are inferior to any other factory action.

[WinnieTheBoom]

Eh, it's always been like that over there. Those guys are all about custom/high end/high dollar rifles and optics. It is pretty funny to see the looks on some of their faces when I outshoot their $6k rifles with a factory Savage though. That's not to say that there isn't a lot of great info over there, and a ton of good shooters. Most any of them that I've met have been super cool and knowledgeable guys, but that "more money = better" mentality always looms large.

The RPR especially is really a work of art though. As far as it goes compared to a Savage, it's over-engineered in pretty much every aspect. When you factor in the price, it really is hard to beat. I guess in a sense, the love affair with Ruger is kinda justified, but that's not to say that Savages don't compete with them at all. In fact, the RPR is really the first rifle from Ruger that I'd consider to be superior to a Savage.

But I look at it like this - every brand is going to have fanboys and loyalists, and that's cool. I don't mind listening to people drool over the RPR because I have a general appreciation for nice rifles anyway. But Savage always has been and will continue to be one of the better shooting rifles that money can buy. The love/loathe is always going to balance out, but as long as you're happy with what you shoot, none of what anyone says or thinks should matter anyway.

[LongRange]

I have been a member on the hide for a long time(and have never posted there)and i quit going there for this very reason. I shoot savage because they are simple cheap and shoot well...i like all rifles reguardless of brand...i just like to shoot and dont care who shoots what....my only real complant about savage is triggers...i sure wish jewell or timney would step up and make triggers for savage.

[stevenc23]

I think Ruger hit a home run with this rifle at this price point. You can't beat it out of the box for what it is. I hope Savage (and others) sees how popular this rifle is and brings their own version to the market.

But when Frank says adding another 1K by upgrading the barrel and a few other components it can't be touched for 2K it is just false.
"you don't have to "Settle" and it's so much easier than doing something similar to a Remington or Savage. "

For less money you can add an XLR stock with folder and a Shilen barrel and it is easier than upgrading the Ruger.

[Robinhood]

I feel the same way you do LR. The bolt design with respect to the cocking mechanism and sear design is garbage. If you have ever worked on any of the other popular designs you would understand. Shilen took the best of the Remington and Savage and made a better action IMHO. Nothing compared to the Mausingfield, but it is the design Savage should have made. It all boils down to machining cost and simplicity. In that context Savage is the Best.

If only if Howa had a 1 1/16 X 20 or 1 1/8 x 20 thread.


Ruger American
http://www.gunsumerreports.com/Ruger_American_Rifle/Ruger_American_Rifle_080.JPG

[eddiesindian]

If it's one thing I love to do Is to pull up to the firing line, pull out my stock savage with my bsa scope, set up next to the youngster who ,s got all the bling bling on his rig from $2k can to a $2k scope To $400 Rings to you name it. Start sending them out to 1k and very quietly serve up humble pie. If he kicks my butt? I won't feel bad, considering the dollar value invested, but if I serve it up? I won't say a word.
Hey? If you got the $? Go for it. If it performs? Even better. But if you get your ass handed to you by a stock rig?......ouch

[Rosco]

The Savage Precision Rifle

Cabela's Savage 12 FV- $379.00
Sell Stock and Barrel- ($175.00)

Savage 12 Action- $204.00
Apache GunWorks 24'' SS X-Caliber 6.5 Creedmore 5/8-24- $325.00
Extractor/Ejection upgrade kit- $24.99
SSS Recoil Lug-$25.00
Rifle Basix SAV-2- $128.50
XLR Chassis- $700.00
Ross Schuler Brake-$45.00
EGW HD RAIL-$80.00
10 Round AICS MAG- $75

Total- $1607.49

And I am sure it would shoot just as well as the RPR,already include a break, have a better trigger and nicer chassis for less money.

[jim_k]

No other company that I can think of chambers as many different and desirable caliber offerings, along with the choices of twist rates and barrel lengths. Add choices of excellent stocks: laminate, McMillan, H-S Precision. And triggers? Both the old style and the new style are just great, IMO. I especially like the locking bar on the old triggers, so it is not going to change when I set it real low. I put aftermarket triggers on my Rem and Win, but not any Sav I ever tried out. Who else sells a ready-to-rumble F/TR rifle that can compete? I have seen two new Sav Model 10's with bent barrels, and Sav replaced them both, no problem, and after that they both shot under 0.4" CTC for 5 shots at 100 yards. I built a Sav on an old 110 action, with a takeoff 22" .308 Win barrel, so seating length could be way out there, and also changed it to a Bell & Carlson Medalist stock (the factory plastic stock was not even good for staking up tomato plants), and that thing was outstanding. With 168 Bergers, it would also shoot under 0.4" for 5 shots. Mind you none of these do that every single group, but we're talking routine load development and testing, not cherry-picking the group when the planets aligned. Yeah, a world-class F/TR competitor will most likely want to have a custom build, and there are a number of great gunsmiths who can put that together with top-end barrels, actions, and usually custom stocks, and if money was no object, and I could still shoot prone, I'd have one.

[pepper savage 111]

Agree with rosco

[BigBlueandGoldie]

Savages have always been the black sheep of the rifle world, so a lot of guys will never give them a fair chance. I have a full custom Savage with all the bells and whistles and it shoots awesome. I also just picked up a stock Savage F-T/R that I will compete with.

I'm not a Savage hater by any means, but the only reason why I own them is they are affordable and easy to work on. With that said, I prefer the function of a Howa or Remington style action over a Savage any day of the week. The new Ruger is purpose built for the Snipershide crowd; it comes pretty decked out for the price. Granted, I don't understand why guys are putting $2k into them, when that same money buys you a far more refined used rifle. With the availability of Remage barrels, I can think of other setups I would rather spend $2k on.

As much as I like Savage, the Ruger is the new cool entry level rifle. I don't think you will see a lot of serious shooters using them in the future, but they will continue to sell like hot cakes as long as long range shooting is a fad. Last weekend I was at the range next to a guy and his two sons that were shooting a RPR and having a blast. They were new to the sport, but chose the RPR for it's features. Ruger filled a niche with a quality affordable rifle, just like Savage has done in the past with it's competition models (F-T/R, Palma, Benchrest) and big bores.

[Stonewall_Jackson]

Most people are just using Savage actions. So there isn't really a comparison.

Actually there are Savage rifles that are excellent right out of the box IMO. I have a .223 12 LRPV that came with the Target AccuTrigger and a H-S Precision stock. It's a single shot which makes it much more rigid too. I've shot some pretty good groups with it. I shot a 1" group at 400 yards with it. I only did that once but it probably averages about 4"-5" at that distance.

Lots of people start with the Target AT when building a rifle and H-S is known to make some decent stocks. And if that isn't good enough you can get a McMillan stock on a Savage. And swapping out the barrel is supposed to be about as easy as it gets on a Savage. I don't see much need to swap the barrel on mine though. Good enough is good enough for me. The list price on those models was around $1400 when I bought mine but the out the door price was considerably less. Around $1200 would get you a new one. I bought mine when it was slightly used for $900. It only had about 10 rounds through it at the time. Someone didn't take the time to knock the nubs down and thought it wouldn't shoot well. Silly rabbits. Bad for him, good for me.

[DrThunder88]

Ruger filled a niche with a quality affordable rifle, just like Savage has done in the past with it's competition models (F-T/R, Palma, Benchrest) and big bores.

That's a great point. The entire American line seems like an attempt to take some of Savage's entry-level market share by splitting the difference between the Axis and 110. So it makes sense that the RPR is trying to get in on some of the more advanced trim packages' target market. Of course it isn't just Ruger that's done this, nor was it just Savage that did it before. The emergence of the RPR, then, isn't as revolutionary as it is inevitable. It may be a game changer, but that mostly means other manufacturers will follow suit.

[wbm]

"There is a reason you don't see high end Savages beyond a few one offs that are done"
a Savage can never compete with the pluses"


Really? http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/08/savage-f-tr-team-world-beaters-on-a-budget/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/08/team-savage-does-well-in-can-am-fullbore-matches/ (http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/08/savage-f-tr-team-world-beaters-on-a-budget/)


(http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/08/savage-f-tr-team-world-beaters-on-a-budget/)

[WinnieTheBoom]

It's been well-documented that the Savage F-Class team(s) use factory F/TRs. Granted, I'm sure they're probably from the custom shop, but it's hard to argue with the accuracy of a Savage. As others have pointed out, it's the black sheep of the rifle shooting world. The RPR just happens to have the 'latest and greatest' rifle to release, but it's inevitable now that other companies will follow suit.

Think about it. Both of my Savages will shoot ragged holes from 1-300 yards, and they'll hold an MOA out to 500 and beyond. There's just not much there to improve on. I don't care if you go out and buy an RPR or build a full custom rig for $8k, that's your prerogative. But I'm going to smile and laugh at you when it won't outshoot my 'cheap' Savage.

[psharon97]

I have to say, I've always been a fan of the Ruger actions. The barrels not so much. A major weakness from all the manufacturers with the exception of Savage is the lack of left hand models and calibers. However, as many people on that site are now blasting Savage and Remington, the Remington fanboys will blast Savage and Ruger. It's the same thing that goes on with car manufacturers.

[LongRange]

I have to say, I've always been a fan of the Ruger actions. The barrels not so much. A major weakness from all the manufacturers with the exception of Savage is the lack of left hand models and calibers. However, as many people on that site are now blasting Savage and Remington, the Remington fanboys will blast Savage and Ruger. It's the same thing that goes on with car manufacturers.

LMAO...Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge

[eddiesindian]

The RPR has that gas gun tactical look to it. does it shoot

[LongRange]

The RPR has that gas gun tactical look to it. does it shoot

yes it does.