Lots of Savage Hate at Snipershide

[Rob01]

'MERICA! :cool::cool:

http://www.armoryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/chucknorris-m60.jpg

[LongRange]

'MERICA! :cool::cool:

http://www.armoryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/chucknorris-m60.jpg

Chuck Norrises razor...and it don't look like it was any match for his beard!!

[psharon97]

About the only nice feature of the RPR over the Savage BA Stealth, is the greater availability of magazines. Looks are a subjective matter and I like the minimalist approach of the LSS XL chasis that Savage went with. The rifle looks very similar to Mossberg MVP-LC. It looks like the Mossberg can be had for ~$1000 but isn't that popular, and is limited to 308win. At least, I don't know of many people talking about it. The RPR can be had around ~$1300, takes AR mags, and has the 243, 6.5creed, and 308win.

Savage will release this rifle in more calibers. 308win, 6.5creed, 300win mag, and 338lp. What I wish Savage will do is release the BA Stealth in left hand.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/110-ba-stealth/

Gun prices were acquired from gunbroker.

[LoneWolf]

The stealth BA will still have the one Savage know weak point if trying to run it against the RPR or other high ends. That's feeding, extracting, and ejecting. Savage is my first choice for an accurate low end single shot or hunting setup. High end competition needs more reliable operation thanks the Savage design can offer. Show me a video of a Savage getting off 8-10 shots in 30secs without some sort of issue. Maybe there's a few out there that have a Savage Rifle that's capable, but in my experience the Savage design fails as soon as you need a fast repeater.

Other than that I always found them to be just as accurate as high end Rifles when using a high end barrel. Grouping well at 100yds and beyond is one thing, but consistent operation is another.

[Russmerle]

The stealth BA will still have the one Savage know weak point if trying to run it against the RPR or other high ends. That's feeding, extracting, and ejecting. Savage is my first choice for an accurate low end single shot or hunting setup. High end competition needs more reliable operation thanks the Savage design can offer. Show me a video of a Savage getting off 8-10 shots in 30secs without some sort of issue. Maybe there's a few out there that have a Savage Rifle that's capable, but in my experience the Savage design fails as soon as you need a fast repeater.

Other than that I always found them to be just as accurate as high end Rifles when using a high end barrel. Grouping well at 100yds and beyond is one thing, but consistent operation is another.

Thats a pretty stout statement... The only bolt action I've had fail to feed was my 700... Ruger does have practice with that Mauser action design so you could be right but that's a big could. According to Drake associates and savage, they've matched all Stealth components and blueprinted/lapped them for perfect fit and function.

[LoneWolf]

I've seen it with R700's, but mostly with Savages time and time again. Especially when desert sand is introduced. It's not that the guys running Savages can't shoot, it's simply in the environment and requirements of a high level Precision Rifle Match they spend more time dealing with feeding, ejection, and extraction issues than any other action I've seen. I ran a Shilen DGR thinking it would solve the issue, but it is the bolt head design that holds the system back. I'll stand behind my statement because I've experienced this with 3 different Savage actions as well as the Shilen action. This is why I now run a custom action. It was never a lack of accuracy, but reliable operation.

I don't hate Savages or the Shilen DGR I just understand their limitations after pushing them in an attempt to be competitive.

If you can't get your shots off within the required time limit you simply can't score enough points to compete.

[Russmerle]

Dang... now that is not reassuring. I'm going to do the ten rounds in 30 seconds now to see what I come up with. I've never run my rigs that hard so I'll have to see. Thanks for the heads up!

[WinnieTheBoom]

In a controlled environment (i.e. at the range), the chance of you experiencing an issue is far less than it would be during the rigors of tactical comps...

It has more to do with the potential for sand/dirt/debris getting lodged in the action. Pair those things with the heat from firing multiple rounds in a short amount of time (and as a result, the increased pressure of firing those subsequent rounds), it's not really a surprise why most guys shy away from Savages for that type of shooting.

F-Class/Benchrest is a different story.

[LoneWolf]

Good input Winnie! The end state for me was I just didn't have 100% confidence in my gear once I was outside of the controlled environment. After making the switch that all changed. I get up to the line and I'm fully focussed on shooting rather than trying to prep everything just right in order to try to avoid the inevitable.

Going back to the RPR. The 3 lug design and the way the bolt is contained is a solid place to start. Make a few upgrades and it only gets better and more reliable.

If I was starting over or just getting into the sport it's exactly where I would start. I ended up building on a Mausingfield M5 action built by American Rifle Company. My reasoning was to delete all the areas where I have seen other actions fail. So, far I can't complain. Only issue I've had was a new Alpha mag was a little tight when stuffed with a full 10rds and took a little extra effort to strip the first 2 off the mag. Other than that it's effortless to cycle.

[Russmerle]

I don't like where this conversation is going... My Remington sps tactical wouldnt cycle at the range without fixing (still not reassured it's 100%) and my savage LA and SA builds will probably fail when it matters most (not that I'm going into combat with them but still). My SIG SSG3K has had no problems so maybe just stick with her... Sad face

[LoneWolf]

They aren't bad rifles, you just have to respect their limitations.

[swamphonkey]

I judge a rifle by how well it shoots. Then all the other stuff comes in like all the Foofoo stuff. I may be old school and cheap. But I have owned hundreds of firearms. the only Ruger I really like are my 454 pistol and my 2 mini 14 and my 10/22. I GAVE my lam stock m77 270 away it didnt shoot worth owning. I had a little 243 m77 that shot OK. But not Great. When the Avg guy gets a Rifle he is not getting the Top end High pression stuff. He is getting what they sell off the shelf in the box stores 80 perc of the time.Ruger came into Savage lane with the American (and I like it the ones Ive shot are shooters) you have a whole gen of guys now thats forgotten what comes first hitting the target. And savage does it!
All these "Factory" Custom Off the shelf rifles lol. Go get a real custom go get something like a Carolina custom or even a Mcwhorter then talk about how big your d,.k is or your wallet. But when the old dude with his 800$ home made build out shoots ya. Rember rule #1 hitting where you want and Savage does it very well. All the rest is levi wrangler or ford chevy bull crap.

[stevenc23]

Its like the energizer bunny, it just keeps going and going: http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5514-bolt-action-rifles/14665251-ruger-rpr-or-a-built-savage/ms/182327928

My favorite: "No contest the Ruger is everything the savage is not and then some ... We had a longer discussion about this and from every angle the Ruger wins"

Frank must own stock in Ruger

[Scott Evans]

If only if Howa had a 1 1/16 X 20 or 1 1/8 x 20 thread.


Why are 26x1.5 metric threads a deal-breaker?

[Robinhood]

Its funny that when pointing to the shortcoming of the Savage action people start bashing Remington. The point is, the custom ARC action is not even in the same league as a completely worked Remington or Savage. Like saying you turboed your Mustang and you start looking for a Bugatti Veyron SS to compare yourself to.

[LoneWolf]

Its funny that when pointing to the shortcoming of the Savage action people start bashing Remington. The point is, the custom ARC action is not even in the same league as a completely worked Remington or Savage. Like saying you turboed your Mustang and you start looking for a Bugatti Veyron SS to compare yourself to.

Valid point Robin. They both have shortcomings, but I think the Remington action is just easier to make improvements to. Savages biggest downfall of all is the constant changing of their actions layout. Between action screw spacing and bolt release it's hard for the after market to keep up. It's not always just a simple modification to make things work a lot of the time.

For me, they all have their own place. If I want to do something on a small budget and make a DIY project out of it then the Savage action is your ticket as long as you're will to accept a few drawbacks other than accuracy.
If you're on a budget, but don't want to do the work yourself, than the Remington may be a better fit with more options available to it. In the end I believe it will have a few less performance drawbacks than the Savage depending on what items you have upgraded in conjunction (i.e. Sako Extractor ect.)

If your budget is bigger and you want to do most of the work yourself then get a Mausingfield or a bighorn TL2/TL3 and run all your Savage Small Shank barrels on a full custom action that won't have any performance drawbacks and be just as accurate as any Savage you could build on a budget.

If your budget is unlimited buy whatever action you want and tell the Gunsmith what you want it to be when they're done.

As far as the Hide convo that was brought up. If I was starting out all over again knowing the issues I had trying to run the Savage action in high stress competition and some austere conditions I'd pick up the RPR and upgrade it down the road. You drop as much or less on than you would a LRP and don't have any of the tuning that a Savage needs. Not to mention the often noted feeding, extraction, and ejection issues that Savage actions are fond of.

As I stated, you have to respect the limitations of the gear you're running. I got tired of thinking about gear and required tuning, so I went the custom route in order to focus on my competitive shooting. I've done nothing, but improve my scores with my decision. A little more financial stress maybe, but I took out the worry of trying to fix my gear while the clock was running and not getting rounds down range to score points!

Savage actions fill their intended roll very well and honestly, I'd love to see someone come out and win a big tactical match with a built up Savage. However, I've never seen a Savage action go through an entire match, much less a single stage without some type of FTF, FT Extract, or FT Eject. They are always accurate, but you can't score points while the clock is running if you're sitting around trying to get a round in the chamber.

I believe those that say they have never had an issue, have never tried shooting a timed event with multiple stressors that take your focus off of what normally works all the time. I.E. Rifle canted on a barricade and not a perfect level prone position or numerous other items like dust storms or sand in general. The muzzle brake blast of the guy next to you throwing sand in your action. All kinds of stuff that occurs during these matches.

I'll end this rant on this one note. I'm not bashing Savage. I am simply stating where I have had them fail me personally and observed them failing others in similar situations. That to me has identified the limitations of the Savage actions and can respect that for what they are.

[wbm]

I got tired of thinking about gear and required tuning, so I went the custom route in order to focus on my competitive shooting. I've done nothing, but improve my scores with my decision.

Well said. Experience is a great teacher.

[yobuck]

Why are 26x1.5 metric threads a deal-breaker?

Because he heard somebody else say it is.

I think Lonewolf is spot on with his assessment. For most of us, even those of us who want better than average
accuracy for hunting or some types of competition, a Savage can be used very affectively.
But every thing, and all of us, has its limitations. Recognizing the boundries is all that's important.

[Logictox]

Gentlemen if a group doesn't believe in what they do or own what do they believe in? I for one am proud of the things I own and consider them the best quality for the price paid. You can't call them haters for being proud of the product they chose, simply product proud. I guess coming from the world of revolvers with Smith and Wesson and Colts I always considered Ruger to be the junk. LOL Not to offend them just putting my own perspective on it.

[Robinhood]

Why are 26x1.5 metric threads a deal-breaker?

Sorry Scott I just saw this. In response I will say, because Savage prefits will not screw into them like they will in a Mausingfield or Shilen. Other than that all it takes is a machine that will cut metric threads.