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Thread: 5.56 / .223 brass difference?

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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkker View Post
    If you want honest chronological info about the cartridges history, AND the weapons it fires in; try this:
    http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw.html
    Here are some of the highlights from this source, in rebuttal to your claims.

    1 - Maybe, however the headspace is NOT longer; the leade is longer. The original chamber had the exact same throat, read about the meeting with Remington below. It also had a 14 twist, then 12 twist, and then.... you get the idea.
    In fact American Rifleman wrote an article on the AR15 in May 1962, proposing that they changed from the 14 TO the 12 twist. They had a brief over-winter test that showed poor bullet stability. During congressional hearing during that month, the USAF was asked to rebuke that magazine article. McNamera signed off on the change to a 12-twist in July '63.

    2 & 3 - The "testing phase" was was so long, which powder do you mean? April 63 they were using IMR-4475.
    Secretary Vance submitted a memo to McNamera, titled "Standardization and Procurement of the AR-15 Rifle" in which was specifically stated that ammo should be procured competitively from commercial sources.
    Sept. '63 - Cartridge, 5.56mm Ball, M193 was officially type-classified. It spec'd a Rem designed bullet @ 3250 fps with IMR-4475 to 52,000 psi. Ohlin complained about that powder and some case specs. Rem also about the case, and wanted to bump the pressure limit by 1K. Federal wanted an extra 1K psi above Rem.
    Dec. 63 The USAF gets lots of ammo with WC846, which is your claim. 846's usage had nothing to do with fill volume. It had to do with it being already available, and meeting the spec, period. Unfortunately in Frankford's 8th memo, the one outlining the "fouling issues" came from commercial lots of IMR-4475...OOppps. The primers ultimately came into question for containing Antimony Sulfide, and Calcium cillicide.
    Jan. '64 - the big 3(Ohlin, Rem, Federal) met with the army to talk powder and pressures. Rem claimed the army mis-read the original print, so the chamber was THEN changed. There is also a pressure waiver for M193 ammo. THAT is where the individual cartridge pressure of 60,000psi came from; NOT the average operating pressure. Under that waiver a million rounds were authorized. Testing was ALSO done with: CR-8136, HPC-10.
    April 64' Both CR-8136 & WC-846 are authorized for use. In 65 so was EX-8208-4, and later 8208M.
    Sept. 64 - Frankford did a study on the case specs. That was completed in October. No metalurgical controls or changes were deemed needed.

    4 - That nifty glued strain gauge is a very well established, and accurate system. If you read the article referenced, the author consulted ammo manufacturers about his method; and was told it was sound.

    5 - Probably so does your thermometer, neither of which is concerning the issue, nor helpful to it.

    I'm glad your book was entertaining to you, but it doesn't seem to be the complete history of the cartridge and weapon systems.
    I should go watch the Democratic Convention it would be far more entertaining but........................

    1. The base diameter of the 5.56x45 chamber is .002 bigger than the .223

    2. The Base-to-Shoulder length is .004 longer on the 5.56 than the .223

    3. Therefore the 5.56x45 military chamber is fatter and longer and you don't know what your talking about in your number 1

    4. Who cares what the NRA has to say about the M16.

    5. The winter test and other test were delaying actions by the Army because they didn't want the M16 rifle and wanted to keep the M14 and the Springfield Armory open for M14 production. In testimony before Congress Remington stated they were told by the Army to make defective 5.56 ammunition to delay and hold up Colt M16 production and a contract award.

    6. Remington could not produce IMR-4475 in the quanities needed and still keep the strict pressure and velosity standards set by the Army. If the velocity requirements had been dropped 50 fps the Remington powder would have passed the production requirements. Because of this the Army used the same reclaimed ball powder used in the M14 rifle and ball powder has a higher loading density.

    7. In September 1966 the Frankfort arsenal did a requirement study on case hardness controls and gave the ammunition manufactures six months to adjust their production lines. This came about because of case extraction difficulties in Viet Nam. (you are cherry picking and editing your answers to make yourself look good and are not telling the whole truth)

    8. That "nifty glued strain gauge" was calibrated with a factory loaded cartridges, of which NONE of the ammunition manufactures would give him their chamber pressure readings. Quote: "Of the manufacturers that responded, none informed me that my maximum pressure results were inaccurate (although they were understandably reluctant to disclose their proprietary data)." Again you are being misleading and trying to fool the readers of this posting for your own gain by misquoting what was actually said.

    9. I said nothing about a thermometer, I said my TIRE PRESSURE gauge was calibrated in psi and not cup or some silly metric standard.

    10. And my books are the complete two volume set on the history of the M16 rifle and not misleading quotes from a webpage called "the gunzone" and a subsidiary of WIKI. And your postings were far less educational and entertaining than watching the Democratic Convention. When do you think you will drop all your red white and blue balloons and supply more misquotes and misinformation?
    Have a real nice day

    Last edited by bigedp51; 09-06-2012 at 09:43 PM.

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