What Savage told me today!?

jrd66 · 05-15-2014, 08:02 PM

I have and had many Savage guns. I currently own half a dozen. I was thinking of getting another Savage today, but with all the new models I wanted to get the best info on the models.

I am now looking for the most accuracy.

Upon calling Savage and asking the question about the most accurate rifle, I was told all rifles with heavy barrels! No matter how I referenced it, he came back with heavy barrels.

I even asked him about different premium or varmint barrels. And about rifling defects, no difference except for heavy barrel!

So, if you want the chance of accuracy below 1" in 100 yards, get a heavy barrel!

What???

I was wondering about the calibers in the 17 rimfires with light barrels that are so accurate out of the box?

I just bought a DPMS panther. DPMS told me there was not any difference between the 18" or 24" barrel accuracy. Only velocity.

Something doesn't sound right!

**bootsmcguire** · 05-15-2014, 08:13 PM

Savage like any other company has sales reps that answer many of the phone calls that have your types of questions. Often times these reps just have a catalog and a computer in front of them and know no more about rifle accuracy than my mother-in-law.

As a general rule, heavier barrels are more rigid and will handle heat better due to their girth and thus retain their accuracy longer than a skinnier barrel once they start warming up. Savage's barrels are all made the same way at the same place they just differ in length, contour, and material/finish. I heavy barrel is just as likely to have rifling defects as a sporter barrel.

Often times sales reps will say heavy barreled models are better, and this is partly true. The heavier barreled models often are offered with better stocks and triggers, and as I said above will handle heat better. The other reason they often push the Heavy barreled models is most of them are more expensive than their skinnier barreled counterparts.

These are just my observations and experiences.

**eddiesindian** · 05-15-2014, 08:15 PM

for whats its worth.....I owned a DPMS in 308 for many yrs. It became a money pit. Trying to achieve "consistant" accuracy from that gas gun proved to not be worthy. (sold it)....best thing I ever did and purchaced a Savage 10FCP-K to add to my tactical addiction.
308 bolt guns will out perform 308 gas guns hands down (as far as consistant accuracy)
I own several .223 gas guns, A2-M4 and 3 different versions of 24" bull barrel target. All of them can give me 1/2moa or better @ 100 easily with a good load work up/development.
IMO........heavy barrels are the way to go ( long term)

**Jamie** · 05-15-2014, 08:20 PM

They both sound right, in a way....

Heavier tend to hold their accuracy potential longer before the start to walk. Also the added weight helps slightly with recoil and keeps the rifle slightly more stable on the bench. That is not to say sporter barrels are not/cannot be accurate. They certainly can be and I have owned several of them. They just start to walk around the target sooner.

For some reason most people believe that a shorter barrel means a less accurate barrel. Simply not true. Where the shorter barrel creates issues is with velocity. Since you have less velocity the bullet is in the wind longer and therefore can be moved around more. So at longer ranges they may seem less accurate at times but that is because you do not have the velocity to cover your wind reading mistakes.

jrd66 · 05-15-2014, 08:49 PM

Boots, I heard that Savage was bought by Remington. It sounds like Rems and Savages are now the same (Savage 10 heavy barrel and Rem 700 SPS).

I agree there is some things in common, but there has to be a difference barrels, like action accuracy. The guy said there wasn't any difference, just barrels!

Companies are dumbing everyone down with this kind of crap.

Eddie, I ended up with the LO-PRO Classic RFA2-LPC 223 (heavy barrel). I could not pass it up!!!! It was on sale at Bud's Discount Guns for $589 with free shipping, and a $50 factory rebate that makes it $539!!! More a survival gun, how could anybody shoot so much ammo these days or want to do all the cleaning an AR requires?

jrd66 · 05-15-2014, 08:56 PM

The problem I have is the Savage guy was replying like I was a first time buyer. He probably doesn't know anything about guns other then what they told him.

There are many differences between a Savage Axis and a 6mm rail gun other than the barrel !!!!!!

**foxx** · 05-15-2014, 08:58 PM

jrd, except for single shots, all Savage bolt actions of the 10/110 design are the same. Differences in models comes down to stocks, finish, triggers and barrel.

Well, there's long and short actions, of course, but the design and quality/performance is the same.

**bootsmcguire** · 05-15-2014, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by jrd66

Boots, I heard that Savage was bought by Remington. It sounds like Rems and Savages are now the same (Savage 10 heavy barrel and Rem 700 SPS).

I had not heard that. I highly doubt that the Savage 10 and the Rem 700 will ever be the same. To many brand loyal followers on both sides to tick them all off by making them the same. May have to go look into the Rem buying Savage thing though.

jrd66 · 05-15-2014, 09:07 PM

The Axis action and the 10 action are different. Not even the scope mounts are the same. I bet if you put a 10 barrel on an Axis action, they would shoot differently.

jrd66 · 05-15-2014, 09:12 PM

Boots, I have been looking into the youtube videos about long range shooting. The Savage 10 and the Rem 700 SPS look about the same accuracy at 1000 yards.

emtrescue6 · 05-15-2014, 09:36 PM

Totally agree with Eddie...I have more than a couple AR's (Rock River, Noveske, Pre-Ban Bushy, a couple guns I built)...I had a DPMS for a couple months, biggest POS I have ever owned! LOL But that being said, the person from DPMS that said accuracy in a 18 or 24" barrel wouldn't be any different is right....barrel length really doesn't effect accuracy as it does efficiency....and the performance difference between barrel lengths really is reliant on powder choices.....slower vs faster burning powders. As far as leaning and shooting an AR? They don't really take any more cleaning/care than any other rifle...and as far as ammo, nothing more fun then dropping 1000 rounds down range in a weekend (I belong to Reloaders Anonymous...we meet here Wednesday evenings...LOL)...all of my AR's will also deliver 1/2 MOA or better @ 100 with the right loads.

I will also agree with Eddie....my 10 FLCP-K in 308 is a dream to shoot! I have walked it out to 600 yards so far, but with 165 Nosler Custom Competitions I am staying just under 1 MOA...and it took very little load development. With mor trigger time I feel I can improve that.

Heavier barrels aren't inherently more accurate than a smaller profile barrel...but as several mentioned, they will typically hold accuracy longer when stringing shots together without having to wait as long for it to cool.

Remington purchased Savage? ummmmm doubtful....LOL

**jonbearman** · 05-15-2014, 09:41 PM

Light or heavy barrel it is a crap shoot whether it will be a tack driver.In the end after you buy it,you will want to replace it with a premium barrel from criterion,shilen,pac-nor,mcgowen etc.The stock barrels are ok but tend to be copper mines after 20-30 shots requiring cleaning to keep the accuracy at its best.If you walk a lot then the sporter contour is the way to go or light varmint.If you do a lot of bench time the heavy barrel will be a bit better supported by the other posters on this thread. Remember that if you get a light barrel or heavy ,you can change it in 15 minutes to the one that you want for whatever reason.Totally field serviceable at home with just a few special tools you can get at Northlandshootersupply.com

**BillPa** · 05-15-2014, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by jrd66

Boots, I heard that Savage was bought by Remington.

No, ATK

ATK’s ammunition brands include Federal Premium, CCI, Fusion, Speer, Estate Cartridge and Blazer. ATK’s accessories brands include BLACKHAWK, Alliant Power, RCBS, Champion targets and shooting equipment, Gunslick Pro and Outers gun-care products, and Weaver optics and mounting systems.

**eddiesindian** · 05-15-2014, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by jrd66

Boots, I heard that Savage was bought by Remington. It sounds like Rems and Savages are now the same (Savage 10 heavy barrel and Rem 700 SPS).

I agree there is some things in common, but there has to be a difference barrels, like action accuracy. The guy said there wasn't any difference, just barrels!

Companies are dumbing everyone down with this kind of crap.

Eddie, I ended up with the LO-PRO Classic RFA2-LPC 223 (heavy barrel). I could not pass it up!!!! It was on sale at Bud's Discount Guns for $589 with free shipping, and a $50 factory rebate that makes it $539!!! More a survival gun, how could anybody shoot so much ammo these days or want to do all the cleaning an AR requires?

roger that. seeing as how the weather here in soutwest Texas is nothing but blowing sand/dirt, i used the time off to (you guess,d it) ...clean all my gas guns (223)......lots of work..but in the end...keeps me ot of trouble I guess

**foxx** · 05-15-2014, 11:06 PM

JRD, the barrels for the Axis and 10 are also the same.

**bootsmcguire** · 05-15-2014, 11:50 PM

Yup my google search turned up ATK as well. Thanks Bill.

jrd66. Ok, gotcha. Yeah they probably do look about the same at 1000 via youtube.

**LoneWolf** · 05-16-2014, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by jrd66

The Axis action and the 10 action are different. Not even the scope mounts are the same. I bet if you put a 10 barrel on an Axis action, they would shoot differently.

Did tis build almost a year ago now just to prove a point about the Axis.

http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...672-Axis-build

D.ID · 05-17-2014, 03:45 AM

Heavy equates to stiffer and therefore will not suffer as extreme (wide) motion under the harmonic vibration caused by the shot.
So if all other things are truly equal......the heavier barrel will be technically more accurate every time.
Of course much like the short action being stiffer than the long action........the difference is so miniscule that it will likely not be noticed by 99.9% of shooters, as we all know: some thin barreled long actions still shoot better than we can..
.
So while certainly not very helpful, still a technicaly accurate statement.

jrd66 · 05-18-2014, 08:31 AM

The recoil lug is the same on the Savage as the rem 700 sps.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/605877/ptg-recoil-lug-remington-700-savage-110-parallel-sides-2285-thick-stainless-steel

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...-prod6911.aspx

**bluealtered** · 05-18-2014, 12:20 PM

It's hard to beat the 10 fcp-k .308 for out of the box groups. I have 75rds through mine using sierra 135gr smk's and it made it's first one hole three shot group at 100yds last time out. Im not sure why but i just put on a 5r savage 18" barrel on it this morning to see what it will do, i don't see how it could be any better than the 24" barrel but who knows.

jrd66 · 05-19-2014, 12:54 AM

It seems to me the Remington guys have to put more money in stocks, triggers. etc.

Savage Model 10: The 1000 dollar 1000 yard rifle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hVDu1EARBc

Shooting 1000 Yards with Savage 308 Winchester
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e4s1cHQpZI

1,000 yard Remington 700 SPS varmint .308
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDp83p0d4X4

Remington 700 .308 SPS varmint 1,001 yard shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh35cqP5va0

**bootsmcguire** · 05-19-2014, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by jrd66

It seems to me the Remington guys have to put more money in stocks, triggers. etc.

And it seems that you have just stumbled on the Beauty of the Savage. Same performance or often better, for less money, and less money spent to the smith cuz you can do it all yourself.

**GaCop** · 05-19-2014, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by BillPa

No, ATK

Thank God! Look what Remington ended up doing to the Marlin line! Some of the rifles they've turned out have been real POS with poor fitting stocks crooked sights and barrel droop.

emtrescue6 · 05-19-2014, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by GaCop

Thank God! Look what Remington ended up doing to the Marlin line! Some of the rifles they've turned out have been real POS with poor fitting stocks crooked sights and barrel droop.

What he said! I was a huge Remington fan for many years and own several older BDL's (honestly, they are still the best rifles I have ever owned)....I wouldn't buy a new off Remington right now...it's sad

the Ranger · 05-19-2014, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by jrd66

The recoil lug is the same on the Savage as the rem 700 sps.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/605877/ptg-recoil-lug-remington-700-savage-110-parallel-sides-2285-thick-stainless-steel

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...-prod6911.aspx

well, sort-of. the shank diameter is slightly different, and I assume the Rem has a smaller diameter action or something. I installed a PTG lug on my Savage and it doesn't really match the diameter of the action and barrel nut.