attention to details

[mikeinco]

lets start with a very basic statement.
there are RELOADERS
and then there are AMMO CRAFTERS.

I have seen people here and else where crying that all the small steps some of us take
are just wasted, of no real benefit.

today while testing some ammo for a rifle, a bunch of those little steps paid off.
shooting three shot groups at 200 yards the chronograph read:
shot 1 2631
shot 2 2631
shot 3 2631
ave 2631
es zero
sd zero
i'd like to say there was only one hole but that would not be true.

[Robinhood]

lets start with a very basic statement.
there are RELOADERS
and then there are AMMO CRAFTERS.

I have seen people here and else where crying that all the small steps some of us take
are just wasted, of no real benefit.

today while testing some ammo for a rifle, a bunch of those little steps paid off.
shooting three shot groups at 200 yards the chronograph read:
shot 1 2631
shot 2 2631
shot 3 2631
ave 2631
es zero
sd zero
i'd like to say there was only one hole but that would not be true.

It's almost like ES and SD are worthless at short range.

[DesertDug]

I would like to have a sample of 5.:cool:
If you loaded up more how did they fair?

and I agree, how could precision loading be a negative or " waste"

I have been tring to go that way with my limited set of tools and was all smiles when I had a SD of 7.

Good reloading.

[CFJunkie]

That's is quite an accomplishment!
I'm not sure you'll see that often given the possible variables due to powder burn, primers, etc. but it is certainly a rarity.
It's nice to know it is possible. I've never had it happen.

[mikeinco]

IT IS the first zero ES/SD i have ever shot.
i have actually shot 1's before.

and in the math world, essentially all shooting samples are too small for "statistical" es/sd.
the math is based on LARGE sample sets..like a 1000 or more.
but we still use the output tho it is barely "DATA' with our small sample sizes.


That's is quite an accomplishment!
I'm not sure you'll see that often given the possible variables due to powder burn, primers, etc. but it is certainly a rarity.
It's nice to know it is possible. I've never had it happen.

[mikeinco]

i shoot a ladder , 10 or so 1/100 of case vol steps , singles in steps. as in a ladder
pick several data points and shoot 3 shot groups .
from the 3 shot group data i shoot one or 2 five shot groups,
and then pick the best and play with seating depth.
range is aprox 100 miles one way took three rifles


I would like to have a sample of 5.:cool:
If you loaded up more how did they fair?

and I agree, how could precision loading be a negative or " waste"

I have been tring to go that way with my limited set of tools and was all smiles when I had a SD of 7.

Good reloading.

[charlie b]

I am impressed you drive 200mi just to shoot.

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[Nor Cal Mikie]

I tune my loads to my gun. And I load on a RCBS Rockchucker and a 505 Scale and I load one at a time.
I shoot 5 shot groups and I single load.
2 or 3 shot groups don't prove anything except that you're getting close.
A "5 shot group" that can be covered with a dime (:cool:) is what I strive for.
ES?
SD?
My Chronograph hasn't been out of it's box in over 10 + years.
Never was concerned about FPS. Never seen anything out run one of my bullets.
If I can't hit what I'am aiming at, I've got problems and need to start over.
My targets don't know how fast the bullet is going when it gets hit.
As long as all my shots are going in the same hole, I'am happy.
Good thing we all don't think the same. Sure would be a boring world. ;):cheerful:

[mikeinco]

and i still tend to ignore your posts. reloader vs ammocrafter.
how are your 2000 yard groups ?
1000 yard groups ?
600 yard national titles ??
you are entitled to do as you please,
it does not work for me.


I tune my loads to my gun. And I load on a RCBS Rockchucker and a 505 Scale and I load one at a time.
I shoot 5 shot groups and I single load.
2 or 3 shot groups don't prove anything except that you're getting close.
A "5 shot group" that can be covered with a dime (:cool:) is what I strive for.
ES?
SD?
My Chronograph hasn't been out of it's box in over 10 + years.
Never was concerned about FPS. Never seen anything out run one of my bullets.
If I can't hit what I'am aiming at, I've got problems and need to start over.
My targets don't know how fast the bullet is going when it gets hit.
As long as all my shots are going in the same hole, I'am happy.
Good thing we all don't think the same. Sure would be a boring world. ;):cheerful:

[mikeinco]

charlie,
i live in the phoenix area. in the summer it is always over 90..more like over 100.
where i compete it is typically 75-90, so i need to test in the temp band.
if i drive 100 miles northeast i am in the low mountains and seldom see 90,, typically 70-85.
$50 to join the club, 7/24 access. limited to 300 yards, but the elevation and temp both work for me.
i go out early, set up, shoot, pack up and home by 1030/1100.
i drive well over 1000 for the matches..one way.

QUOTE=charlie b;458856]I am impressed you drive 200mi just to shoot.

Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

[J.Baker]

and i still tend to ignore your posts. reloader vs ammocrafter.


And that right there is why half the people on this site don't like you. You're rather full of yourself and have this attitude that anybody who doesn't do it "your way" is somehow inferior. Lot's of ways to skin a cat, and comments like that just show everyone how much of an ass you are.

[Texas10]

Although I've never experienced the statistical zero SD/ES, I have got it down into the one's on occasion. As some will remind though, a perfect SD/ES rarely shoots a perfect group, and that is why I let the target do the talking as much as possible.

I have however, found a repeatable way to shoot 5 shot, one hole groups, every time. SD/ES can be all over the place but it never fails me. 5 shots, one hole. Ok, sometimes it's a bit ragged one hole. The trick is to (using wind flags) be as precise as possible in shooting that first shot, then crank the elevation turret up until it hits the stop and fire 4 more. One hole group, every time.

[mikeinco]

the good news is i really do not care.
i shoot PRECISION rifle at several distances.
i KNOW what precision is and what "reloading" is.
i guess i need to go do an intro that explains what i do and how i do it.
everyone has their own idea of "accuracy", most times it is not close to how i compete.
100 yard benchrest, 600/1000/2000 yard benchrest .
i build my own rifles, i load my own ammo.
i am new to savage rifles, i am not new to serious precision rifle shooting.

i have no idea why norcalmike decided to post. hear himself ?? we have crossed paths on several forums
and have seldom agreed. its not new.



And that right there is why half the people on this site don't like you. You're rather full of yourself and have this attitude that anybody who doesn't do it "your way" is somehow inferior. Lot's of ways to skin a cat, and comments like that just show everyone how much of an ass you are.

[yorketransport]

I can’t count the number of times I’ve shot groups with and Es of 3-5 fps and was rewarded with a mediocre group. My go to load when shooting local 100 yard BR had an ES of 35 fps but shot in the high .1s for 5 shot groups.

The only time I bother with the chronograph any more is when I’m working with a new wildcat or getting velocities before lobbing shots at the other side of a valley.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

"we have crossed paths on several forums"??? News to me.
I just mentioned what and how I do things and you end up making a pissing contest out of it?
I think we've got your number. I guess it's hard to be humble when you're so good?
Like I said, sure glad we all don't think the same.

[olddav]

I tend to let people have their victory even if I don't really think it's worth celebrating. Shooting small (very small) groups is rewarding (I assume) and shooting a zero FPS ES/SD string is also rewarding (again I assume). Why one Kung fu has to better than another is just a bit confusing to me. I guess I just don't understand.
I couldn't find the emoji I wanted, (shaking head).

[J.Baker]

the good news is i really do not care.
i shoot PRECISION rifle at several distances.
i KNOW what precision is and what "reloading" is.
i guess i need to go do an intro that explains what i do and how i do it.
everyone has their own idea of "accuracy", most times it is not close to how i compete.
100 yard benchrest, 600/1000/2000 yard benchrest .
i build my own rifles, i load my own ammo.
i am new to savage rifles, i am not new to serious precision rifle shooting.

i have no idea why norcalmike decided to post. hear himself ?? we have crossed paths on several forums
and have seldom agreed. its not new.

What kind of shooter you are or how good of a shooter you may be or what disciplines of competition you shoot has absolutely nothing to do with how you interact with and treat others. The whole "I don't care" comment just reinforces my statement about your having an attitude problem.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

"The whole "I don't care" comment just reinforces my statement about your having an attitude problem".

The first thing I would do if I was him? Be real careful not to trip on my Ego. From how high he's put himself, it's a looong fall.
Sure looks like if you don't agree with him, YOU'RE the bad guy, no matter who you are.
Don't know him or where he came from BUT, I'am impressed that little old me, without even trying, could wind his clock.:p
Didn't know I had it in me, and without even trying.:cool:
Bet he's fun to live with.:eek:

[Robinhood]

Validation, Most need it to one degree or another.


MikeinAZ
My question is: if you come to a forum and post your successes and continuously beat others down for not being as good as you are. What is the purpose? It is definitely not to help others. I don't think it is comradery. All it can be is validation.


You offer no help or appreciation for others. Just insults. You are either a curmudgeon or a fibber. You could just open up MS word and write about how awesome you are(where no one would ever see it), but you don't. You come to a forum hoping others will read about your alleged accomplishments and elevate you to the status you feel you deserve. That's a need for validation.

There are many guys out there that are much more accomplished than you and they treat people with respect. You insulted bigedp51 the other day. He helps people everytime he post. He takes time to share the collected gifs and pictures with hand written text explaining what he feels is the best advice. bigedp51 lives to help others even if misconstrued by some. All of your knowledge is worthless if not shared.....It is OK to be about you, just be about others too.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Robilhood:
You WERE speaking about mikeinco NOT mikeinAZ? :thumb:

( You insulted bigedp51 the other day)??
I wasn't aware of that. Looks like mikeinco hates ANYBODY that doesn't think the same way he does?
(and I was thinking it was just me??)
Appears he has a LOTS of smarts but is so intent on running other folk down that don't agree with him, in the end he can't accomplish anything. Just a legend in his own mind. What a shame. The man needs to be prayed for, REAL HARD!!