attention to details

[wbm]

The man needs to be prayed for, REAL HARD!!

lol! ya think

[Texas10]

I'm not implying this about anyone, just offering some perspective about what it's like to be raised by a narcissist.

It's been my experience that when you're raised by a Narcissist that everything you do is diminished so that the narcissist can always feel that they're the best. Your belief in yourself MUST be strong just to survive that environment while growing up because what you'll always hear after relating how you accomplished something is " I did it THIS way it was better". So anytime the narcissist survivor hears how someone else did it differently, they'll go back to their survivor behavior and it frequently comes out sounding angry, when in fact it's really them feeling diminished, and for no good reason.

The narcissist survivor may or may not themselves become a narcissist, but they will always have the fleas of the narcissist. As the saying goes, if you lay down with a dog, you'll wake up with fleas, and so it is with a narcissistic parent.

It is also what drives the narcissist survivor to excel in everything they do, and they frequently do quite well in competition because LIFE ITSELF BECOMES A CONSTANT COMPETITION, courtesy of the narcissist and they're quite accustomed to the pressure.

That's all I have to add to this conversation. It's my opinion that the thread itself has no value except as a means to crucify others, it seems.

[charlie b]

Wow.

Ok, so first, I appreciate the accomplishment and as an engineer I'd like to know how it was done. What kinds of details were attended to and what kind of equipment was used to minimize those details. Sometimes I learn something that helps me with my "cheap" equipment (I reload mostly for the fun of it).

Second, I grew up in Glendale, AZ. Neighbors were shooters at the Thunderbird range (now in the middle of huge residential areas) and we used to drive out to the desert in that area to shoot jackrabbits. Went to Black Canyon a couple of times but not on a regular basis. I am surprised it still exists being in the middle of all that build up. Now in southern NM so the heat is an issue I am familiar with when shooting, and something I try to account for when loading and making up dope tables, since I also shoot during the winter here. Mike, did you go to school in the Phx area? My mother and father (and grandfather) were high school teachers at several different schools in the 50's to 80's (Glendale, Central, Phoenix Union, Alhambra, Maryvale).

Last, I do not compete. I never found it interesting or satisfying. I do like improving my own work. As far as labels go, anyone who reloads is a reloader. Some have different goals or reasons for doing so. Some like to make precision ammo. Others reload just to save money. Others because they like to. Same with rifles. Some like to build their own out of "cast offs", others only use the most precise components and some just buy a rifle off the rack to shoot. None of these people are "better" than anyone else. Someone who shoots once a year to get an elk in the freezer is just as "good' as a national/olympic champion shooter.

[mikeinco]

DD,
when i narrow down the load ii will shoot 5's.
there is a reason to not shoot fives early in load development.
if your goal is 1/2 moa, and you loaded up
5 loads in your choice of increments and you shoot
three shots of load one and the group is clearly an inch or more,
let me ask you a question:
how much SMALLER will the group get with shots 4 and 5 ?
ANSWER it cannot get smaller.
if 1/2" is your goal and you are at 1" with 3 shots, shooting the last 2 is:
a waste of time
a waste of components
a waste of money.
in the early steps of load development there is a clear reason to
shoot 3's and not 5's.

all loads i shot that day were single didget es's.


I would like to have a sample of 5.:cool:
If you loaded up more how did they fair?

and I agree, how could precision loading be a negative or " waste"

I have been tring to go that way with my limited set of tools and was all smiles when I had a SD of 7.

Good reloading.

[DesertDug]

I can see your logic.

[mikeinco]

i moved here not quite 2 years ago, when i retired.

Wow.

Ok, so first, I appreciate the accomplishment and as an engineer I'd like to know how it was done. What kinds of details were attended to and what kind of equipment was used to minimize those details. Sometimes I learn something that helps me with my "cheap" equipment (I reload mostly for the fun of it).

Second, I grew up in Glendale, AZ. Neighbors were shooters at the Thunderbird range (now in the middle of huge residential areas) and we used to drive out to the desert in that area to shoot jackrabbits. Went to Black Canyon a couple of times but not on a regular basis. I am surprised it still exists being in the middle of all that build up. Now in southern NM so the heat is an issue I am familiar with when shooting, and something I try to account for when loading and making up dope tables, since I also shoot during the winter here. Mike, did you go to school in the Phx area? My mother and father (and grandfather) were high school teachers at several different schools in the 50's to 80's (Glendale, Central, Phoenix Union, Alhambra, Maryvale).

Last, I do not compete. I never found it interesting or satisfying. I do like improving my own work. As far as labels go, anyone who reloads is a reloader. Some have different goals or reasons for doing so. Some like to make precision ammo. Others reload just to save money. Others because they like to. Same with rifles. Some like to build their own out of "cast offs", others only use the most precise components and some just buy a rifle off the rack to shoot. None of these people are "better" than anyone else. Someone who shoots once a year to get an elk in the freezer is just as "good' as a national/olympic champion shooter.

[yobuck]

I can’t count the number of times I’ve shot groups with and Es of 3-5 fps and was rewarded with a mediocre group. My go to load when shooting local 100 yard BR had an ES of 35 fps but shot in the high .1s for 5 shot groups.

The only time I bother with the chronograph any more is when I’m working with a new wildcat or getting velocities before lobbing shots at the other side of a valley.

Well thanks for your honesty Yorkey. At the distances you like to shoot, (lobbing) shots would be the proper term.
Results will be what the conditions permit. About 2 weeks ago the 2019 world open shoot was held at Williamsport.
The results are posted on the website. It’s interesting comparing the results with prior years results. It’s also interesting to look at the equipment used and compare with prior years. Note that there are almost no factory actions being used today. The vast majority are also using custom made bullets. All in all there are no doubt more shooters shooting better than years back. That no doubt due to better equipment being used by more people. But are the better shooters from years back shooting better today? As for consistency probably yes, but as for their best group size? About 30 years ago Frank Weber set a new 10 shot record of 3 something inches using a 308 Baer on a L61 Sako action. At 83 he did well again this year. He never owned a chronograph and I doubt very much he has one now.
All those dashers built by Mark King pretty much all use the same load, and I’d say much of the ammo originates in his shop.

[mikeinco]

for the record yobuck and yorketrans were the two that said
i cannot compete at 2000 yard group and score win a 300 win mag.

i won the 2000 yard group/score nationals this year a 300 win mag.

they are not exactly experts at the long range game

[bigedp51]

Does this post by mikeinco remind anyone of flaming bovine scat?

I did a search at accurateshooter.com for the mikeinco screen name and all I found was someone asking another braggart if he was related to mikeinco. :rolleyes:

https://i.imgur.com/eHM6WZi.jpg

[yobuck]

[QUOTE=mikeinco;458995]for the record yobuck and yorketrans were the two that said
i cannot compete at 2000 yard group and score win a 300 win mag.

i won the 2000 yard group/score nationals this year a 300 win mag.

they are not exactly experts at the long range game[/QUOTE

Thats wonderfull, congratulations for that. It could even be more wonderfull if the all the information and results were posted.
I never knowingly claimed being an expert at anything, especially shooting at long range.
But i have been around that activity for about 50 years and have had considerable experience with the guns and glasses needed for seeing hits on those types of shots.
Shoot with whatever and however it floats your boat Bub. But coming on sites like this and trying to shove BS down peoples throats wont win you much. And yes again, I’m calling your Win Mag claims to be what they are, B S.
How can you and Jeff Brozinski ever be at the same place at the same time?

[Nor Cal Mikie]

bigedp51:
As expected, mikeinco just can't say anything nice about anybody. Appears NOT to be in his DNA.
Like you, I happened to check the members list @ accurate shooters also and it appears mikeinco's reputation precedes him. Can't find him on the members list.:confused: So, we're seeing his rep here also. Not very well liked over there.:sour: Wonder if his sharp tongue got him run off? Seen it happen a few times.:p
Seems to be a pretty smart man, just doesn't know how to play nice/well with others. If he keeps up that M O, he won't have any place to go and run folks down. A real shame. Might have been able to learn something from the man??

[Robinhood]

for the record yobuck and yorketrans were the two that said
i cannot compete at 2000 yard group and score win a 300 win mag.

i won the 2000 yard group/score nationals this year a 300 win mag.

they are not exactly experts at the long range game

Really, Was Tom Mousel there with his 338?

A fella named Mike Nagengast came from Sun City, AZ with his 300 WinMag hunting gun.

6 Shooters total in 3 classes. The only other shooter was Alex Wheeler with a 6 Creedmoore.

[wbm]

Well most times i think smart is as smart do.

[snowgetter1]

This guy was trolling and got a lot of bites!!!

[mikeinco]

yes we had a weather (rain) scare and most shooters from across the usa bailed at the last min.
in the end we had good weather on friday for practice, and sat for the match
we shoot 5 shot strings at 2000 at a 1000 mil target on a 8x8 backer.
yep i shot not as bad as the other guy...good for the win.
last year i dq'd alex with off shots on his target. this year i paid his entry as a payback.
last year my scope base came loose and caused havoc. good elevation, no windage control.

i'll see most of them at the northwest 1000 yard championship in aug.


Really, Was Tom Mousel there with his 338?

A fella named Mike Nagengast came from Sun City, AZ with his 300 WinMag hunting gun.

6 Shooters total in 3 classes. The only other shooter was Alex Wheeler with a 6 Creedmoore.

[mikeinco]

so we have some bullies here. some all hat and no cattle. some with no character, that like to pile on when others attack.
the difference, is i actually do what i say, in spite of comments by children on the forum.

[bigedp51]

I'm beginning to think mikeinco is F.Guffey's son and able to leap tall reloading presses in a single bound.

https://i.imgflip.com/41huk.jpg

[mikeinco]

and while you all seem to praise him, you know why the child is on my ignore list.
such a child he will not go away.



I'm beginning to think mikeinco is F.Guffey's son and able to leap tall reloading presses in a single bound.

https://i.imgflip.com/41huk.jpg

[J.Baker]

Enough of the B.S. and piling on guys. I addressed the behavior issue so move on. Next person that stirs the pot or takes a jab gets a 7-day vacation.

Let's get back to talking guns and shooting rather than being pricks to one another. You're all better than that - or at least should be.

[GaCop]

the good news is i really do not care.
i shoot PRECISION rifle at several distances.
i KNOW what precision is and what "reloading" is.
i guess i need to go do an intro that explains what i do and how i do it.
everyone has their own idea of "accuracy", most times it is not close to how i compete.
100 yard benchrest, 600/1000/2000 yard benchrest .
i build my own rifles, i load my own ammo.
i am new to savage rifles, i am not new to serious precision rifle shooting.

i have no idea why norcalmike decided to post. hear himself ?? we have crossed paths on several forums
and have seldom agreed. its not new. You sir are truly a legend in your own mind.:bored: