Seeking advice on brass cleaning with my new Harbor Freight tumbler and pins

[Bill2905]

I’m looking for suggestions from Harbor Freight rock tumbler owners after getting mixed results from my first brass cleaning efforts.

I finally decided to try this method and bought the Harbor Freight dual rock tumbler. Along with that, I bought 2.5 lbs of Guntap branded pins from Amazon based on positive reviews.

I tumbled 1 lb of 223 cases with 1 lb of pins, a squirt of Dawn, and a 38 case full of Lemi Shine powder. I also did the same with some 38 Special cases. After one hour, the cases were clean and shiny but with one disappointing finding. The cases have a sandblasted appearance which clearly says that the process was too harsh.

Has anyone had this experience with their Harbor Freight unit?

I’m going to try two things to see if I can resolve this;

1. Tumble the pins by themselves for 4 hours to see if that will dull the ends of the pins a little (probably should have done this to start with).

2. Tumble some scrap brass with a ratio of 2:1 pins to brass to see if that provides additional cushioning inside the mix, reducing battering of the cases.

I’m also going to try cleaning some brass without pins and see if maybe that’s adequate for my needs.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

[celltech]

Another guy had the same issue...not sure he ever really found a cure: http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?64173-New-wet-tumbler-making-brass-look-sandblasted

[Robinhood]

1/4" inch max pins in bottom of drums. Go easy with the soap.

[J.Baker]

I've been using the Frankfort Arsenal wet tumbler for a couple years now, and unless I'm cleaning some really funky range pick-up brass I rarely use the pins anymore. Just too much of a hassle to separate out the pins and dry them after each use - even with the separator and magnet. Most of the time I just fill the drum 1/2 to 3/4 with deprimed brass, add water until it's a couple inches from the top of the drum, add a healthy squirt of Dawn and a table spoon of Lemi-Shine and let it run for an hour or two. When done I drain/rinse thoroughly, dump them in a towel and shake them about to get them mostly dry, then finish air drying upside down (case mouth down) in my reloading trays. Use 223 size blocks for 308 size cases to keep the case mouths off the bottom of the trays and prevent residue on the case mouth from the water pooling around it before evaportating off.

This method doesn't thoroughly clean the inside of the cases, but I really don't see much need to as the carbon buildup inside the case is very minimal. I'm considering getting a dryer/dehydrator just to speed up the drying process a little but haven't pulled the trigger on one yet.

Also, one thing to watch when using the pins with small diameter cases like the .223 is that a pin will occasionally get stuck inside the case at the bottom blocking the flash hole and it will wreck the depriming pin in your sizing die in short order when they do.

[mikeinco]

ok
lets fix the PROBLEM, not the SYMPTOMS.
buy the correct pins.
cheap pins with poorly cut ends is a PROBLEM.
SQUARE cut pins are not a problem.
( now i will go see if i can find who i bought from)

later
here is where i bought/what i bought. i use the rcbs sidewinder for pin cleaning brass

https://stainlesstumblingmedia.com/?SID=283b6e6418f55d287ebf6ec54736d8d5

[Bill2905]

I've been using the Frankfort Arsenal wet tumbler for a couple years now, and unless I'm cleaning some really funky range pick-up brass I don't even use the pins anymore. Just too much of a hassle to separate out the pins and dry them after each use. Most of the time I just fill the drum 1/2 to 3/4 with deprimed brass, add water until it's a couple inches from the top of the drum, add a healthy squirt of Dawn and a table spoon of Lemi-Shine and let it run for an hour or two. When done I drain/rinse thoroughly, dump them in a towel and shake them about to get them mostly dry, then finish air drying upside down (case mouth down) in my reloading trays. Use 223 size blocks for 308 size cases to keep the case mouths off the bottom of the trays and prevent residue on the case mouth from the water pooling around it before evaportating off.

This method doesn't thoroughly clean the inside of the cases, but I really don't see much need to as the carbon buildup inside the case is very minimal. I'm considering getting a dryer/dehydrator just to speed up the drying process a little but haven't pulled the trigger on one yet.

Also, one thing to watch when using the pins with small diameter cases like the .223 is that a pin will occasionally get stuck inside the case at the bottom blocking the flash hole and it will wreck the depriming pin in your sizing die in short order when they do.

I stayed away from the FA and Lyman units because I don't have that much brass to clean and had read that they don't work that well with a small charge of brass.

After my original post, I cleaned some scrap brass without any pins using Dawn and Lemi-Shine. They came out looking pretty good in only an hour. I still observed a little peening on the surface but much less. I'm going to experiment with using more brass to see if that makes a difference. I agree about the reduced cleaning inside the case but I don't think that's much of an issue either.

[jpx2rk]

The SS pins will peen the brass, but if you run the pins in with scrap brass or just themselves, the sharp edges will get worn down and the peening will be reduced. If there is lots of room in the tumbler (low brass count) then the brass cases themselves will peen each other.

I have the FA wet/dry media separator and it makes getting all the SS pins out of the brass much easier, and I clean more 223 than anything right now. I have a FA mini, and the directions state it has a capacity of 300 .223 cases so I did a test, put 300 .223 cases in, the entire 2.5# of SS pins that came with it, along with water, Dawn and Lemi=shine, ran it for 2.5-3 hrs. End result of just a few primer pockets/insides were not 100% clean, but look showroom new.

[Robinhood]

I second Mike's STM suggestion.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

I finish tumble with dry corn cobb or walnut shell. No polish or additives. Come out looking like new. One thing to keep in mind. Best to SS tumble only once in a while. First to get them clean including the primer pockets, after that, dry tumble. I have found GOLD DUST around the rim of mt Thumblers (big drum) Tumbler. That showed me just how much/what the SS treatment did to the brass. Peened body and dented necks. I'll run overnight the first time to get the brass CLEAN. And don't be mixing pistol and rifle brass together. They'll get stuck together with media and you will fight them to get them apart. Been there, done that.:mad: Corn cobb seems to clean better than walnut. Try rice. That works good to.
Dry tumble. New brass doesn't come with polish on it so why add it now? Sure not trying to impress anybody.;)
And keep in mind, every time you touch/pick up that piece of brass is another chance to give it a good inspection. Better to find a problem/defect NOW then when you pull the trigger.:( And if you can't be bothered to inspect them more than once, go buy factory loaded ammo and get to shooting. I have BR brass with 25 to 30 firings/resized on them and still going strong. Take care of it and it will be good to you.:cool:

[J.Baker]

I stayed away from the FA and Lyman units because I don't have that much brass to clean and had read that they don't work that well with a small charge of brass.

After my original post, I cleaned some scrap brass without any pins using Dawn and Lemi-Shine. They came out looking pretty good in only an hour. I still observed a little peening on the surface but much less. I'm going to experiment with using more brass to see if that makes a difference. I agree about the reduced cleaning inside the case but I don't think that's much of an issue either.

I regularly run 100 piece batches of rifle brass through mine and they come out just fine so not sure why others would be having any issues.

[Bill2905]

I regularly run 100 piece batches of rifle brass through mine and they come out just fine so not sure why others would be having any issues.

Good to know. Is it the regular size or the mini?

[J.Baker]

Mine's the regular size.

[Texas10]

Been using the HF rock tumbler for about 4 years now. Still running strong. I started with SS pins, Lemi Shine and soap. Typically two pounds of pins, 25 large cases or up to 50 223 cases. Fill with warm water and tumble 45 min to one hour. Rinse and dry.

Today I am using Sleeping Giant SS bits, they don't get stuck in 6.5 CM necks, RCBS Ultrasonic and tumbling concentrate, and getting even better results.

One thing to remember is that what ever media you're using, it will migrate into the cases during tumbling, and therefore not be available to cushion the brass from banging into each other. If you're getting peening, increase your media and or decrease case count.

[mikeinco]

i do not know what rotational speeds any of the above units have.
i have been using the pins i listed, and the rcbs sidewinder for years.
5 lbs of pins, lemonshine/warm water/soap aprox 2 hrs rifle cases only, 50 to 100
I DO NOT HAVE
NECK DENTS
BRASS POWDER IN MY CONTAINER
PEENED BRASS OR NECKS ( published test by a lab, says not happening).

[JeepsAndGuns]

Another guy had the same issue...not sure he ever really found a cure: http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?64173-New-wet-tumbler-making-brass-look-sandblasted

That was me. I have not found a fix for the issue. However to be honest, I have not touched it since that thread. Partly because I am frustrated at spending that much money only to have those issues, and partly because I have been so busy I barely have enough time to do anything.
I have been working on a piece of property I just bought trying to get it ready to move to. I will have my own personal 100 yard shooting range there. So a lot of stuff has taken a back burner to that.
I am either putting it on hold (like the tumbler) or trying to get it done before it comes time to move (my 223 build in the members build forum)

If you do find a fix please let us know, as I would be very interested in it.

[bigedp51]

There are so many types and makes of rock tumblers that are used for cleaning cases its hard to give advice. This is because of the size of the drum and the speed it turns and how hard the cases hit each other.

Using any wet tumbler with stainless steel pins is a learning experience and varies with each type tumbler and how hard your water is.

I have a STM tumbler and made the same mistake the OP did and did not just tumble the pins first to wear down the sharp cut ends and that batch came out looking sand blasted.

Below on the left is a case that I forgot about and they tumbled over six hours. The case had been trimmed, deburred and had a sharply defined mouth "before" tumbling. And the over tumbling pounded the case and badly peened the case mouth. The case on the right is right out of the factory bag and shows the effects of factory tumbling.

Bottom line, you will learn with each type tumbler how long to wet tumble your cases and not do any damage to the cases. I recommend getting a timer and inspect your cases every hour to find out what works best for you. "AND" read the instructions, they are rock tumblers and can pound your cases and make them look like a heard of beavers were chewing on them.

I also have a Lyman dry media vibrating tumber and generic Amazon sonic cleaner. And I have been using the sonic cleaner the most because it does not have any adverse affects on the cases.

https://i.imgur.com/CIxnlIW.jpg

iSonic® Professional Grade Ultrasonic Cleaner (generic version of the Lyman sonic cleaner and cheaper)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009BC4S0G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[mikeinco]

i just do not understand how people manage to ruin brass in a simple cleaning process.
look at the weight of a single ss pin, watch how far is slides as the drum turns.
remember the pin is in water...it moves very slowly.
try more water
quit reloading

[bigedp51]

i just do not understand how people manage to ruin brass in a simple cleaning process.
look at the weight of a single ss pin, watch how far is slides as the drum turns.
remember the pin is in water...it moves very slowly.
try more water
quit reloading

The pins do not cause the damage, it is the cases hitting each other and the soft annealed case mouths. A simple dry media separator can tumble and ding the case mouths.

If you have a digital camera and take a closeup photo of the case mouth and then display it on your computer screen it would amaze you.

With wet tumbling I found I had to trim the cases to get rid of the peening from even tumbling one hour or less.

Again the size and speed of the tumbler effects how hard the cases will hit each other and peen the case mouth.

I bought the sonic cleaner because most pistol cases are shorter than the minimum trim length and did not want to trim them shorter. And wet tumbling peened and thickened the case mouths and caused hard bullet seating and the need to increase the case mouth flare. And the pistol expanders caused very small flakes of brass to break off the case mouth.

All you need to do is go to the Accurate Shooter or Benchrest Central or other websites and read the complaints about wet tumbling because of what it does to the brass. I'm not a perfect human being and made mistakes when I first started wet tumbling and again it is a learning experience and can take time to find out what works best.

Now go back and look at the photo I posted and look at the factory tumbled case mouth that was "NOT" wet tumbled.

Wet tumbling does not ruin the brass "BUT" the cases do hit each other harder and more frequently than any other form of case cleaning. And I have been reloading for over 48 years, have a wet tumbler and use it. "BUT" a sonic cleaner does not allow the cases to fall and hit each other and peen the case mouth. And if I was going to give recommendations to anyone I would say get a sonic cleaner and learn to live with less "bling" with your brass.

The link below shows how many reloaders have problems with case mouth peening, and my STM high speed tumbler tells me to tumble from 2 to 4 hours.

SS Wet tumbling seemingly ruining case mouthshttp://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/ss-wet-tumbling-seemingly-ruining-case-mouths.3937582/

[mikeinco]

it is still strange
i do not have dinged case mouths
i do not have poor external finish

i do not care how long anyone has been doing anything.
if your cases look like crap, fix the problem, not the symptom
lemonshine
liquid soap
warm water
stm pins
rcbs sidewinder( a very slow rotary "tumbler")
STM pins WORK

[bigedp51]

it is still strange
i do not have dinged case mouths
i do not have poor external finish

i do not care how long anyone has been doing anything.
if your cases look like crap, fix the problem, not the symptom
lemonshine
liquid soap
warm water
stm pins
rcbs sidewinder( a very slow rotary "tumbler")
STM pins WORK

You answered your own question, your expensive and discontinued RCBS Sidewinder tumbler is "slow speed" and could be used with dry or wet media. So please tell us how to fix the problems and not the symptoms with all the other higher speed tumblers on the market. You are not offering any advice on how to fix any tumbling problem.

Below is the OPs $54.99 Chinese Harbor Freight 3400 RPM rock tumbler, please tell him with all your expert advice on how to fix his problem tumbling brass cartridge cases.

https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_11481.jpg