300 win mag at 1845yds...

[eddiesindian]

I guess the only thing that comes to my mind at least is the old time worn cliche (whatever floats your boat).
I do have at least some idea of the creativeness that went into building a device like this. And i can appriciate
the feeling it might give when you see it work as you had planned on it doing.
Trap shooters have the privelage of seeing the target burst before their eyes. Yet very serious trap shooters want
to know why they missed the targets they missed.
Ive seen video camera devices placed at the target also to indicate not only a hit but where on the target it hit. But again it shows nothing as to why it might have missed.
Misses at long range, regardless as to what has been said or written is a foregone conclusion to happen more often than not at extreme distances like those being discussed.
What to do about it for the next shot is the important factor. Im not talking about next time or next day but right now as soon as we can chamber another round.
I built it because I can
I know full and well what it takes to adjust POI. Reading wind out to distance is a challenge,adjusting to it takes practice. If you dont have an idea as to knowing why you miss,d?....then maybe long range shooting isnt your cup of tea. As I mentioned...I built this to advise me of hits..nothing more...nothing less.
I still shoot with spotters and it helps (sometimes)
I commend longRange for not only shooting and hitting past a mile but doing it by himself just showed that he knew "why" he missed and adjusted accordingly by himself.
next one I make, Ill make sure it has a monitor screen advising the shooter "why" he miss,d....lololololo....gezz I swear...your taking all the fun out of this.

[eddiesindian]

the hit system...ive got a target cam plan somewhere just need to find it and get the parts.

ck your pm Long Range

[LongRange]

I guess the only thing that comes to my mind at least is the old time worn cliche (whatever floats your boat).
I do have at least some idea of the creativeness that went into building a device like this. And i can appriciate
the feeling it might give when you see it work as you had planned on it doing.
Trap shooters have the privelage of seeing the target burst before their eyes. Yet very serious trap shooters want
to know why they missed the targets they missed.
Ive seen video camera devices placed at the target also to indicate not only a hit but where on the target it hit. But again it shows nothing as to why it might have missed.
Misses at long range, regardless as to what has been said or written is a foregone conclusion to happen more often than not at extreme distances like those being discussed.
What to do about it for the next shot is the important factor. Im not talking about next time or next day but right now as soon as we can chamber another round.

and this brings up a GREAT point for PPL that think that neck tension + or - 0.001...trim length + or - 0.001...seating depth + or - 0.001...+ or - .1g or powder..bearing surface of bullet..weight of bullet...primer lot #...ECT dont make a difference ...but most of all atmospheric conditions....and condition of shooter with the last two being the biggest effect of the out come of the shot placed. ive shot SEVERAL times at 1650yds from the same place...exact same everything with the exception of the shooter and have had 32 confirmed hits out of 50 on a 12"x16" AR500 plate target...the next day with exact same loads and environmentals i had 43 hits confirmed on the same re-painted AR 500 plate.

so in the big picture and to your question as to what can we do to from chamber 1 to chamber two...theres nothing WE can do but hope for the best and make sure our ammo,weather conditions and shooters are ALL spot on...as from chamber 1 to chamber 2 the time it takes to fire that round will effect the shot placement as well as we all know that 2+secs in a warm chamber will effect shot placement and as chamber heats it will effect shot placement even more at EXTREME LONG RANGES!!!

the rabbit hole is deep and i know you have been there LOL!!!

[eddiesindian]

and this brings up a GREAT point for PPL that think that neck tension + or - 0.001...trim length + or - 0.001...seating depth + or - 0.001...+ or - .1g or powder..bearing surface of bullet..weight of bullet...primer lot #...ECT dont make a difference ...but most of all atmospheric conditions....and condition of shooter with the last two being the biggest effect of the out come of the shot placed. ive shot SEVERAL times at 1650yds from the same place...exact same everything with the exception of the shooter and have had 32 confirmed hits out of 50 on a 12"x16" AR500 plate target...the next day with exact same loads and environmentals i had 43 hits confirmed on the same re-painted AR 500 plate.

so in the big picture and to your question as to what can we do to from chamber 1 to chamber two...theres nothing WE can do but hope for the best and make sure our ammo,weather conditions and shooters are ALL spot on...as from chamber 1 to chamber 2 the time it takes to fire that round will effect the shot placement as well as we all know that 2+secs in a warm chamber will effect shot placement and as chamber heats it will effect shot placement even more at EXTREME LONG RANGES!!!

the rabbit hole is deep and i know you have been there LOL!!!

+1................

[yobuck]

Well again i will compliment Eddiesindian on his creation. Im sure it brings him much satisfaction as it should.
Trust me im not attempting to pi-s on anybodys campfire here with my comments. Also trust me in that if this discussion
were taking place on other forums i wouldnt be the only one having comments. Ive never claimed to be an (expert) at anything
here or anywhere and that includes my shooting ability. We could fill a large room with knowledgable people who would dissagree on most things including
what it takes to produce an accurate load. If our own opinions on that work for us thats wonderfull and is why handloading can be so gratifying.
But also be prepared to have your lunch eaten by somebody who dosent do it your way. I will also commend LongRange on his good shooting ability especially
at plus 1600 yds with a 300 win mag. Certainly not a cartridge considered ideal for those distances. As for the comment of there being nothing you can do about
conditions, that would depend. If the wind was blowing very hard and especially gusting, than it might be best to just call it a day. Otherwise, the (KEY) is to have
another (experienced) shooter looking thru very large and very good tripod mounted binnoculars. He would be sitting a short distance behind the shooter.
He will be following the trail of the bullet which will alert him as to where actual impact will take place. If the wind is blowing hard the trail will probably be dissapated before it reaches the target.
In any event, if the spotter cant see the actual hits, its over so just pack up and leave. You cant adjust to something unseen.
To attempt to shoot at long distances without an (experienced) spotter with excellant optics, especially while hunting, would take mostly luck to achieve success. It is also a reason long range hunting receives some of the criticisum it does.
Put it this way, give me 5 or 6 bullets while using my gun and a good spotter using my binnoculars and ill light that lite without knowing how far it was first, AND SO COULD YOU. Unless its really windy of coarse . Id let you use my gun also, but then youd want one lol.
So in the big picture there is actually much we can do, but as with many other things it takes experienced people using the right tools.
Note i didnt say extremly talented, i simply said experienced.

[NW Hunter]

Longrange, I didn't catch what your load is for your 300wm?
My goal is to shoot at a mile accurately also.
I have grouped 190 Berger Hunt VLDs at 1300 yards and am currently developing a load with Berger 210 VLDs.

[LongRange]

Well again i will compliment Eddiesindian on his creation. Im sure it brings him much satisfaction as it should.
Trust me im not attempting to pi-s on anybodys campfire here with my comments. Also trust me in that if this discussion
were taking place on other forums i wouldnt be the only one having comments. Ive never claimed to be an (expert) at anything
here or anywhere and that includes my shooting ability. We could fill a large room with knowledgable people who would dissagree on most things including
what it takes to produce an accurate load. If our own opinions on that work for us thats wonderfull and is why handloading can be so gratifying.
But also be prepared to have your lunch eaten by somebody who dosent do it your way. I will also commend LongRange on his good shooting ability especially
at plus 1600 yds with a 300 win mag. Certainly not a cartridge considered ideal for those distances. As for the comment of there being nothing you can do about
conditions, that would depend. If the wind was blowing very hard and especially gusting, than it might be best to just call it a day. Otherwise, the (KEY) is to have
another (experienced) shooter looking thru very large and very good tripod mounted binnoculars. He would be sitting a short distance behind the shooter.
He will be following the trail of the bullet which will alert him as to where actual impact will take place. If the wind is blowing hard the trail will probably be dissapated before it reaches the target.
In any event, if the spotter cant see the actual hits, its over so just pack up and leave. You cant adjust to something unseen.
To attempt to shoot at long distances without an (experienced) spotter with excellant optics, especially while hunting, would take mostly luck to achieve success. It is also a reason long range hunting receives some of the criticisum it does.
Put it this way, give me 5 or 6 bullets while using my gun and a good spotter using my binnoculars and ill light that lite without knowing how far it was first, AND SO COULD YOU. Unless its really windy of coarse . Id let you use my gun also, but then youd want one lol.
So in the big picture there is actually much we can do, but as with many other things it takes experienced people using the right tools.
Note i didnt say extremly talented, i simply said experienced.

first let me say that at BEST i am an average shot and by NO MEANS claim to be a great shooter...as ive said in another thread ive got a LOT to work on especially trigger pull,follow through and mounting position as i just cant get being directly behind the riffle down which effects my pulled shots BIG time.i agree with every thing you say including that the 300wm isnt the best cartage for ELR shooting but at the same time the proof is in the pudding...PPL have said for years that the 300wm lacks in several areas at long distances due to the short neck...after shooting a 300wm for a few years i would have to respectfully disagree...ITS THE POUR MANS LAPUA...and that goes back to ppl being set in their ways and regurgitating what they have heard or read on the net...as far as shooting the wind...i live for this and have shot my lowly 300wm in 25mph gusting winds at 1135yds with 34 confirmed hits out of 40 rounds fired with 5 being in the 10 ring...and also have several confirmed cold bore shots out to 1500yds on a 12"x16" AR500 plate that were within 1.5" of point of aim.i also agree that if on accurate shooter or BR central it would be a BIG CLUSTER F with PPL calling BS but it is what it is...im not here to impress ANYONE or to make false claims...like you i call them like i see them i do not regurgitate what ive hear or read on the net...and in ending you know i have mad respect for you but id put my lowly 300wm up against ANYONES ELR riffle ANY DAY with a good spotter!!!

[LongRange]

Longrange, I didn't catch what your load is for your 300wm?
My goal is to shoot at a mile accurately also.
I have grouped 190 Berger Hunt VLDs at 1300 yards and am currently developing a load with Berger 210 VLDs.

summer at 90+deg 70.5g RL-22 CCI 250 primer 208g hornady .004 off lands NOSLER brass 2950 to 2975FPS
winter at 40deg+or- 71g RL-22 CCI 250 primer 208g hornady .004 off lands NOSLER brass 2930 to 2950FPS

NOW KEEP IN MIND...im shooting nosler brass which has more case capacity than rem,fed or win brass...ive blown primers out of the cases with this same load in win brass!!

[eddiesindian]

first let me say that at BEST i am an average shot and by NO MEANS claim to be a great shooter...as ive said in another thread ive got a LOT to work on especially trigger pull,follow through and mounting position as i just cant get being directly behind the riffle down which effects my pulled shots BIG time.i agree with every thing you say including that the 300wm isnt the best cartage for ELR shooting but at the same time the proof is in the pudding...PPL have said for years that the 300wm lacks in several areas at long distances due to the short neck...after shooting a 300wm for a few years i would have to respectfully disagree...ITS THE POUR MANS LAPUA...and that goes back to ppl being set in their ways and regurgitating what they have heard or read on the net...as far as shooting the wind...i live for this and have shot my lowly 300wm in 25mph gusting winds at 1135yds with 34 confirmed hits out of 40 rounds fired with 5 being in the 10 ring...and also have several confirmed cold bore shots out to 1500yds on a 12"x16" AR500 plate that were within 1.5" of point of aim.i also agree that if on accurate shooter or BR central it would be a BIG CLUSTER F with PPL calling BS but it is what it is...im not here to impress ANYONE or to make false claims...like you i call them like i see them i do not regurgitate what ive hear or read on the net...and in ending you know i have mad respect for you but id put my lowly 300wm up against ANYONES ELR riffle ANY DAY with a good spotter!!!
Hitting at 1500 with cold bore and reading/evaluating and adjusting for windage then sending with confirmed 1st round hit?......To me?....that equates to winning the Lotto. Job well done dude.
I hear you on sometimes not being one with the gun. I sometimes find myself not feeling satisfied with my body to rig alignment. I sometimes find myself unchambering,getting back up,move around,stretch, move this, move that, get behind my rig again and give it a go. Course by that time, the freken wind has once again changed lololololo.......its madness I tell ya!...simply madness lolololo

[LongRange]

Hitting at 1500 with cold bore and reading/evaluating and adjusting for windage then sending with confirmed 1st round hit?......To me?....that equates to winning the Lotto. Job well done dude.
I hear you on sometimes not being one with the gun. I sometimes find myself not feeling satisfied with my body to rig alignment. I sometimes find myself unchambering,getting back up,move around,stretch, move this, move that, get behind my rig again and give it a go. Course by that time, the freken wind has once again changed lololololo.......its madness I tell ya!...simply madness lolololo

as far as cold bore at that distance goes every thing was as perfect as it could be and it dont happen that often...i have more bad days than good days lol.

[yobuck]

as far as cold bore at that distance goes every thing was as perfect as it could be and it dont happen that often...i have more bad days than good days lol.

Your being very honest here and i applaud you for that. In a discussion on another site Brian Litz told me that at 2000 yd, first round cold bore hits could be expected.
But he didnt say BY WHO, WITH WHAT, OR HOW OFTEN. But, hey buy my book and you too can become one of the chosen ones.lol
Im not sure if i should first buy the one that tells me how to become rich buying real estate without any money however.
Seems to me that one is temporarily off the shelves. lol
As for the 300 win mag, it is one of the most accurate cartridges available for long range shooting. Its quite possible that the 300 wsm could be even slightly
better however due to the ammount of long range target shooters using it. The current world record (heavy gun) group has been held by that cartridge for
several years now. But thats a bit of a misnomer because the worlds smallest 1000 yd group with any gun was shot recently in Montana by a guy with a light gun class
6mm Dasher.
I would say for all round use bullets from 190 to the 215 grs would be the best selection for the 300 win mag.
As for it comparing in any way to any rifle having higher velocity while shooting heavier bullets it will fall short.
For more than 25 years i shot a 30x378 custom action gun with a 36" barrel. It produced 3500 fps using a 200 gr smk
over 113 gr of h570. I didnt stutter, i said h570, long since gone unless like me you hoarded some.
I also tried 220 smks and 240smks in that gun extensivly. At 1500 yds it was no contest between those bullets with the
200 gr being far and away the winner for trajectory. That no doubt due to higher velocity. For a long range hunter, the 30x378
was the ultimate cartridge for several decades using either 200 gr or 220 gr smk bullets. (there were no Bergers then or most of the others either)
Then along came the 300 gr 338 smk. About 2 days later guys like Bruce Baer were all over it creating cartridges for it.
Nobody, (INCLUDING ME) believed that it would hold up to the higher velocity of the 30x378 up to say a mile.
One day while hunting with a couple of others we ran into Bruce and a buddy. Almost immediatly talk got around to his then new 338 on the 416 rigby case.
Same capacity by the way as the 378 wby case but non belted. He claimed a velocity of 3050 fps plus or minus with the gun. Within a short time the gun was
sitting on his portable bench. (We all use portable benches in PA) We picked a target we were very familar with shooting at and he dialed the scope for the 1500 yds.
He dialed zero wind as we didnt feel there was much so just shoot one and see what happens. I ask how much elevation he was adding and he told me.
I then said, knowing full well how much i needed, well if you can do that i'll be impressed. i think 4 of us were watching when he touched it off and
it was if i was following an 18 wheeler in front of me on a freeway. If he had been shooting at a deers head he would have hit it first shot. He almost rolled on the
ground laughing but was finally able to say, well Ernie, were you impressed? We all shot the gun and it seemed nobody could miss with it.
Of coarse he couldnt just leave well enough alone, and insisted i drag out my 30x378. My excuse was the wind had picked up, but fact is i couldnt put 2 shots in
the same place. And it took more elevaation than him for me to do it by as i recall 3 minits. Now that of coarse could vary some even with different guns of same cartridge.
But there was no question as to the accuracy. And there is no question that at even more distant targets the differences become much more pronounced.
I dont even own a 300 win mag. But if somone were to ask my opinion of an excellant cartridge for long range hunting it would be on top of the list.
But dont try to compare it to a 338 lapua or any other large 338 for the distances your shooting. It's nothing to do with opinions, but just the way it is.

[LongRange]

i agree theres no compression its more of an inside joke as i know a guy that has a high end 338 lapua...i think around $7500 in the rifle and i doubt he has 50 rounds through it so im always on him about it and trying to get him to come out and shoot with me...the joke started when he said i needed to build a 338 and i said i have a 338 its just a poor mans 338. i also know that a 300 wont keep up with a 338 but have heard from so many ppl that the 300 isnt accurate it lacks in this way or that way and even after proving thats not true i still hear it so now i just agree LOL.

[eddiesindian]

as far as cold bore at that distance goes every thing was as perfect as it could be and it dont happen that often...i have more bad days than good days lol.

boy aint that the truth. somedays everything seems to flow.great temps,wind isnt acting like your x-wife. everything just feels right. then theres those days when you realize you should of just stayed home.
Got good news as well long range...Ill call you later this evening.

[LongRange]

boy aint that the truth. somedays everything seems to flow.great temps,wind isnt acting like your x-wife. everything just feels right. then theres those days when you realize you should of just stayed home.
Got good news as well long range...Ill call you later this evening.

i was out cold when you called...you can give me a call any time today.

[yobuck]

There will always be dissagreements over various guns and cartridges and what we can expect out of them for long range shooting.
The type of use as well as the geographic location will play a large part in gun and cartridge selection. Individual experiences will also
affect opinions even in the same geographic areas. Thats especially true when hunting is involved. An eastern shooter/hunter faces a
different set of challenges than a western counterpart. As a result opinions on cartridges might bring about more dissagreement from east to west.
It's also a reason various types of equiptment other than the gun is considered more important among easterners. It's a well known fact that
a very high percentage of western hunters each year come from eastern areas. That would include a large ammount of long range hunters also.
The opposite rarly takes place and mostly for good reasons. Those being the variety as well as more game and better locations to hunt them long range in the west.
The hunting tactics used in the east were largly developed by necessity. The same necessities dont necessarily exist in the west at least to the same degree.
But bottom line is this, mountainous eastern tactics work very well in the west as for long range. But western tactics in the east will most often send you home empty.
You can take that for what it might be worth to you.

[LongRange]

There will always be dissagreements over various guns and cartridges and what we can expect out of them for long range shooting.
The type of use as well as the geographic location will play a large part in gun and cartridge selection. Individual experiences will also
affect opinions even in the same geographic areas. Thats especially true when hunting is involved. An eastern shooter/hunter faces a
different set of challenges than a western counterpart. As a result opinions on cartridges might bring about more dissagreement from east to west.
It's also a reason various types of equiptment other than the gun is considered more important among easterners. It's a well known fact that
a very high percentage of western hunters each year come from eastern areas. That would include a large ammount of long range hunters also.
The opposite rarly takes place and mostly for good reasons. Those being the variety as well as more game and better locations to hunt them long range in the west.
The hunting tactics used in the east were largly developed by necessity. The same necessities dont necessarily exist in the west at least to the same degree.
But bottom line is this, mountainous eastern tactics work very well in the west as for long range. But western tactics in the east will most often send you home empty.
You can take that for what it might be worth to you.

that all makes since to me...ive seen the effects that weather and terrain have...thats another reason i dont hunt...id be hungry all the time LOL.

[eddiesindian]

i was out cold when you called...you can give me a call any time today.

roger that

[eddiesindian]

This ones got your name written all over it longrange...its ready!
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x88/eddies880/LongRangeAlarm_zps0fa03132.jpg

[LongRange]

This ones got your name written all over it longrange...its ready!
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x88/eddies880/LongRangeAlarm_zps0fa03132.jpg

That looks fantastic...cant wait to light it up!!

[eddiesindian]

If you smack target with a 1st round hit and lite the alarm out past a mile? I'll personally buy you a Kids Happy Meal from McDonald's Lolo