Caldwell lead sled or higher mag scope?

[trigger-finger]

I shoot with a Savage 11 Trophey Hunter xp in 308 with the 3-9x40 Nikon scope. Was having problems sighting in scope because I always shoot by myself with no spotter.
I was looking to get scope with more zoom but couldn't decide what I needed yet (ffp vs sfp). So I purchased a Caldwell lead sled plus and two 25lb weights. So far, If nothing else I love the lack of pain in my shoulder from shooting 50+ rounds per trip. Works better than limbsaver, plus much better grouping and more consistent shooting.
However, I am wandering if money would have been better spent going towards a scope with more zoom. I.e. 4-16 or 6-24. I mainly sort benchrest at 100 and eventually 200 yards. Can this be done well with Nikon 3-9x40 and lead sled or trash sled and get better scope?

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[davemuzz]

Spend what you can afford on scopes. Spend as much as you can afford on scopes. The other "range stuff" is still good to have....and if your into shooting, your probably going to want\need it anyway. But you can't hit what you can't see. Scope's (quality one's) are just as important, if not more important than the rifle itself.

Dave

So....yeah...I just spent your $$$ on range equipment AND a better scope. But that's how it works.

[trigger-finger]

I'm having a problem even hitting what I can see. :-). I don't think I have a bad scope. The Nikon 3-9x40 is pretty bright and clear. Some days I can hit a100 yard target some days just can't get on paper.
Some times I hit paper but can't adjust scope to get it in the black. When I try to adjust I lose poi altogether and have to go to 25 yards and star over to get back on paper at 100 yards. Resort to using holdover to get dead center. I think it is more of a learning problem than equipment issue at this point. Everytime I try renting a spotter score they are all checked out. Options anyone?

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[CharlieNC]

You should not be having the degree of problems you are describing, and should at least be on the paper every time without any adjustment (if it was on last time you shot). Sounds like something besides the scope is off, like maybe the bases or rings are loose. You should be able to see the bullet holes with 9X at 100 yards with the scope too; did you adjust the eyepiece according to the directions and then lock it down? If all this checks out then maybe you need different ammo that the rifle likes better for accuracy.

[airdale]

The sled is your answer. Make sure your rifle is in the sled so it can't move. Put your target at 50 Yds.' adjust your sled so your cross hairs are on the bulls eye and fire. Walk to the target and mark the point of impact with a colored dot go back and adjust your scope to be centered on the dot without moving the gun. Now move the gun to be centered on the bulls and fire, you should be very close. Move the Target to 100yds' and repeat the procedure. I seldom take more than five rounds to get centered. It is all contingent on the rifle Not being able to move in the sled.

[masterblaster]

You should read upon how to zero a scope first, then get a bag to shoot off of take the led sled back it is not as stable as a good bag to shoot off of, front pillow and rear squeeze bag. Remove the scope and mounts, reinstall with some blue locktite, look up lone wolf on youtube on how to do it. Try using white zero targets you should see the holes better and align your cross hair better. After you start shooting better get a new scope (6x24 PST or Bushy ET), get a new Trigger (Sav 2), new stock, re barrel with a CBI or other barrel. You should be set after this.

[trigger-finger]

I tried bags and bipod. However, Like Airdale described I move rifle after everyshot so was unable to use method he described.

Realized one mistake I was making is that 1/4 clicks is not the same at 25 yards as 100 yards and couldn't figure out why after 8-16 clicks POI wasnt moving much at 25 yards but would be completely off paper at 100 yards where 16 clicks would be 4". Strange thing is I seem to have to zero scope everytime I go to range. Not sure if it is wind changes, loose mounts or because I use what ever cheap ammo I can get my hands on.

Not ready to buy new scope quite yet. If I can't figure this relatively simple scope out, I think the Vortex 4-16-50 mildot ffp I want will only make things worse if I don't know how to use it?

Already, have accutrigger, once I get better scope and better skills I will upgrade the whole rifle to something more customizable. But NOT a 700 Remington.... (Savage Forum).

[Nandy]

It seems the problem you are having is not understanding how your rifle work. We all have been there and I think you did great getting in the forum and bringing your problems up for us to comment.

Im not sure how much a sled cost but IMHO you could benefit from a better scope in the future, however, for 100 yds and 200 yds paper punching you are ok for now... BTW, you should not have a problem seeing a .308 bullet hole at 100 yds with a 9x scope. If you cant then something is not right, either your scope is not setup correctly or you need to have your eyes checked. I thought I could see well until I got glasses...

Seems you might need to get an aftermarket recoil pad, I see you mention LimbSaver but I am not sure if you really have that recoil pad in or not. When recoil hurts it will not only hurt your shoulder but for most it will hurt accuracy. Nothing worse than squeezing the trigger while getting all tensed up because the pain you know is coming...

Not sure how shooting by yourself and not having spotter is affecting your ability to sight in the rifle at anything at or under 100 yds. Might take you longer if you want to mark every shot. Please elaborate if you care.

Dont worry too much now to be dead center in your target. What you are looking for is for your groups to be consistent. For your poi to be always in the same area and group of shots to be as close together. If you can have consistency on your poi and group size then moving your poi is a simple mathematical equation.

If you change your bullets your poi will change. It dont matter if you are shooting premium bullets or cheap bullets. Find the bullet that your rifle likes. That will be the bullets that produce the less inconsistencies as far as poi and smaller group size. Keep in mind that wind could play a great deal in your poi, also if you have a sporter barrel the hotter it is the more chances your poi will change.

Just like you found out, 4 clicks will affect your poi differently depending on how far the target is. There are a few videos in Youtube and in the net that will explain MOA.

I think you are in the right track asking here.

* Find out why you cant see the holes in our target at 100 yds.
* Find a bullet that your rifle likes or at least for now (until you get all the kinks out) a bullet that will give you 1.5" MOA or less at 100 yds.
* Get a better recoil pad.
* Read and learn about what affects your rifle accuracy. Practice what you read.
* Stick to one bullet until you figure out what is causing your huge POI changes.

Im sure more will chime in...

[jonbearman]

I suspect you have developed a bad flinch. Get a A-Zoom snap cap.It is a dummy cartridge that will allow you to dry fire your rifle to get to the point when squeezing the trigger and it goes off without you expecting it.Gaining good shooting skills is paramount to throwing money at anything.If you have a friend or someone at your club you know,get them to shoot the rifle to make sure it isnt bad habits that will make you crazy.I have a friend who flinches so bad he actually comes off the seat at the bench.This is in no way trying to insult you but to imform you of this condition that can affect even the best sometime in their rifle shooting career.

[Mach2]

Try a public range. Shooters are always willing to lend a hand to newbies. You just need a few pointers.
I never used a scope till I was in my 40s so I knew rifles but not scopes. My scope broke after the first few shots only it took me two trips to a range to learn that on my own. Finally I asked for help.
When I got home I sent the scope back to the manufacturer.

[trigger-finger]

I think the light has gone ON! I didn't realize you can see the cross-hairs move when turning the turrets. DUH! I've never been able to bore site rifle because I didn't have a vice. Could never handhold rifle steady while looking through scope and adjust dime slot type turrets at the same time. (Note to self new scope must have tactical turrets).

Sled was only $150 including 2 - 25lbs weights so was worth the purchase. Will add velcro strap at butt and forearm so it doesn't jump off sled. I also found you need to still pull rifle to shoulder and use same cheek weld and eye relief as if you were not using the sled. Will save me money in amo in the long run as I will be in to sight in longer ranges faster with the message described above.

Took slip on limb saver off this plus 1/2 inch padding on sled was causing over 4" eye relief, saved about 1" taking limb-saver off. Although the Limb-saver helps reduce recoil a lot I was still having a sour shoulder after shooting 40-50 rounds 2-3x a month and bowling once a week for league.

Hope to get on paper out to 200 yards next week.

[Nandy]

Where are you located trigger?

[trigger-finger]

Livermore, ca
Just got through bite sighting my scope. Was about 4" low exactly what I was seeing at range. Took about full turn and a half to correct. This seemed strange to me because I had already zerod scope. When I checked mounts I found finger ring to rail mount was loose. I had tightened this before but it loosened again. Well get some loctite. Won't replace rings and rail until I upgrade scope.

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[Nandy]

ok, was checking just in case you were close to me so I could try to help in person. Maybe someone else is close to you. Anyway, "finger ring to rail mount" not sure what that is, I suspect your phone is correcting your typing and making it worst, maybe you had a typo.
Base to gun screws can be loctite but I would not advise to loctite rings screws. If you have a in/lbs (not ft/lbs) torque wrench will be helpful to make sure all the screws are up to torque. Loose scopes will mess up your shooting for sure...

[Mach2]

Won't replace rings and rail until I upgrade scope.

Hey Trig. We see a lot of zeroing issues in here from the owners of the Nikon package scopes. What does it say on the scope? I don't think it is a Prostaff model or it would say so.

[trigger-finger]

Hey Trig. We see a lot of zeroing issues in here from the owners of the Nikon package scopes. What does it say on the scope? I don't think it is a Prostaff model or it would say so.

Yea, it is a Prostaff 3-9x40 BDC

http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Nikon-Products/Scopes/6722/ProStaff-3-9x40-Matte-BDC.html

Scope is OK, but I've done research and hear rings are not. However, all the scopes I'm looking at have 30mm main tubes so if I replace rings now they want fit on knew scope.

What's slipping is the big thumbscrew which holds rings to base keep loosing. I used pliers and tightened it pretty good and bore sighted scope.

this is it. needs tool to adjust turrets.
http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/sportoptics/prostafftea.pdf

[Mach2]

Trig I'd keep the Prostaff scope no matter what. Get some lightweight alumnum Leupold rings for it. I have a plex reticle Prostaff that I love.
That's a heckuva rifle you got there too.

[x98myers7]

99% sure the problem is the rings. i had a similar problem with my 111 hunter/XP combo.

the factory rings are crap and will loosen up after 5 shots. the large thumbscrew loosens up even with locktite. get rid of them ASAP or plan to tighten them up after every 2 shots. no joke.

[trigger-finger]

Good information. If it is recommend to keep the score then um going to have to replace these rings. Costing more money in ammo to sight in everything I go shoot. U also notice the way these rings mount they are not adjustable forwards and backwards. Would like to go with rail and taller rings so that I can move score more towards butt of rifle and raise score about 1/2" it's hard for me to get my cheek low enough on stock to see through scope without seeing black at the top. Also because I have long arms I would like distant between butt of stock and trigger to be about 2-3" longer. Current eye relief is about 4" but need to move score back towards butt about 2"

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[tyler.woodard04]

Do not strap that rifle in to that sled. You'll be buying a new scope for sure. Rifles are made to recoil. Impeding that is going to cause damage to it. Learn how to correctly shoot it. Make sure everything is tight and stays that way. (There is a thing called to tight also don't strip anything)

Trigger control ,consistent ammo, good rest, proper eye relief and parallax. All these need to happen to shoot well