ProMag Archangel Short Action Stock 6.5 Creedmoor rounds not feeding well

[geezerhood]

I got a good deal on the short action Archangel stock for my 6.5 Creedmoor. I think the action is maybe 2 years old. Originally a Model 10 factory 243 Win or maybe it was a 308 Win, removable magazine, center feed setup with the bottom bolt release.

In testing feeding and function I could hardly close the bolt. I thought maybe I hadn't shortened the WAY too long front action screw enough, but it was sitting just below the peaks of the threads in the action. I eventually figured out it was the bolt handle rubbing on the stock on the front side. Easy fix. Next I went to checking round feeding. Sadly, I could never cycle 10 rounds without at least one nose diving down where the tip of the bullet hit the breech face and thus halted the forward movement of the bolt. If I let loose of the pressure on the bolt handle, most of the time the round would lay flat and allow me to close the bolt. Sometimes I had to jiggle the bolt a bit to chamber the round. Cycling the bolt as fast as I could didn't work, though the failure rate was lower. Every speed in between, also no good. Cycling VERY slowly on the closing stroke would usually allow me to chamber and eject 10 rounds without a jamb. For me, this performance is unacceptable, though admit that I do live with crappy feeding from a few of my old blind mag stagger feed Savages. I had hoped this setup would work flawlessly with the Creedmoor. I like the stock just fine otherwise.

This thread below is one reason I bought the stock due to the positive comments about reliable feeding on the 6.5 Creedmoor.

https://www.savageshooters.com/showt...-action-6-5-cm

I tried 2 different bullets - 139 OTM Scenars and 129 plastic tip Amax, no difference. I bought several extra 10 and 7/5 round mags, they all do the same thing. I also tried longer and shorter seating depth, no difference. Usually I will get at last 2 jams out of 10, quite often 3, sometimes as many as 5 out of ten. I do think that a magazine designed just for the 6.5 Creedmoor is likely the only fix for this problem, but thought I would check here to see if anyone else has had the same trouble and perhaps found a fix for it.

[J.Baker]

That feeding issue mirrors my experience with every Savage I've shot in 6.5 Creedmoor, and I've seen numerous videos on YT of people experiencing the exact same thing. I think it's just the culmination of incompatibilities and tolerance stacking (i.e. mags designed to feed .308 Win rounds with more body taper, same exact feed ramp in the action used for every other cartridge, loose sloppy tolerances in the bolt face diameter combined with the fact all brass is undersized at the base, etc).

Might be able to tweak the feed lips if using steel mags to get more reliable feeding, but you've pretty much discovered the main reason I won't own a Savage in a Creedmoor and generally don't recommend them to people who ask.

[geezerhood]

Well, at least I didn't invest in a brand new gun that wouldn't feed consistently. Fortunately, I have had good results feeding 6.5 Creedmoor rounds from, ironically, the old staggered mag boxes that are attached to the action. I tried several different center feed setups, both internal and removable, and none of them worked worth a darn.

Has anyone had good luck feeding 6.5 Creedmoor rounds from Accurate Mag brand single stack steel magazines in a short action chassis?

[Kev1Doggy]

I changed my Savage 10 to a MDT chassis because of mag problems, and than rebarreled from 308 to 6.5 cm using Pmags and are having good results. I had to do a little trimming on the feed lips because they were hitting the bolt maybe yours are doing that on your setup?

[kingdombuilder]

if you are having mag problems in an archangel stock it has nothing to do with savage . make sure there is no play in mag after inserted . mine in 308 was loose and after a few rounds it slipped down . the mag release slides out. under it is the rear action screw . make sure its tight then make sure by trigger guard there is a hole to keep mag release in place make sure it is snug . the mag release part slides down making mag loose causing feed problems . make sure the part by trigger guard is in . its like a set screw i think . any thing will lock the mag release in place just be sure its removable so you can access rear action screw when needed . my stock and mag are awesome . the ergonomics are incredibly comfortable . my rifle improved like 1/4 " at 100 to shoot in the . 4's at 100 now with factory ammo . waiting for weather for handloads . adj lop adj cheek rest detachable mag QD flush cups and mloc slots under $200 whats not to like .

[geezerhood]

Thanks for the input guys.

The bolt doesn't seem to be dragging on the feed lips. I only tested feeding with the retaining pin that holds the mag catch in, installed, so the catch is not moving. I have tried 2 different Archangel stocks, both brand new and also tried 8 different new mags. The two 7 rounders that come with the stock and 6 ten rounders. Additionally I tried two different actions on the Archangels. and 3 different 6.5 CM barrels. None of them feed reliably from the Archangel setup OR from three different Savage center feed internal or removable magazine rifles. Both Archangel stocks feed 308 rounds flawlessly from all 8 magazines, so it also does not appear that there is anything seriously wrong with the Archangel stock / mag setup as far as the round the mags were built for goes.

It sure seems like the problem is more likely with the Savages, as far as feeding 6.5 CM rounds, than with the Archangel and that I am not alone with this problem at least with factory actions / stocks. The only all Savage setup I could get to reliably feed 6.5 CM rounds was with two old blind staggered feed mag box rifles. Do many of the new Savages being sold in 6.5 CM have this same feeding problem? I have never owned a factory built 6.5 CM Savage. J Baker's comments makes it sound like they do.

[kingdombuilder]

My one 6.5 creedmoore Savage is an ashburry . They are factory blue printed . It runs flawlessly but it may be in part to reduced tolerance stacking . Or it could be because it runs from a p mag . the creedmoore is nose heavy as a cartridge having the bullet further out than most . Does anyone know what other manufactures did or didn't do to get round to feed in their Guns . Baker has a much better feel for that others are saying . I am curious to see does the axis and 12 fv have the same problems or is it just model 10 series .

[Robinhood]

A thread on another forum suggest modifying the ejector to be slightly shorter. Seems like several gentlemen have had success.

[Orezona]

That feeding issue mirrors my experience with every Savage I've shot in 6.5 Creedmoor, and I've seen numerous videos on YT of people experiencing the exact same thing. I think it's just the culmination of incompatibilities and tolerance stacking (i.e. mags designed to feed .308 Win rounds with more body taper, same exact feed ramp in the action used for every other cartridge, loose sloppy tolerances in the bolt face diameter combined with the fact all brass is undersized at the base, etc).

Might be able to tweak the feed lips if using steel mags to get more reliable feeding, but you've pretty much discovered the main reason I won't own a Savage in a Creedmoor and generally don't recommend them to people who ask.

I feel lucky to have not experienced your pain. I have a Savage Predator 6.5 Creedmoor (Accustock) that feeds and shoots and whitetails don't care for it much. I have three DBM's for it and they all feed the same.

[want2ride]

I have two 6.5 Creedmoors that are factory savages. the LRP with the HS precision stock and factory 4 round savage mag feed perfectly as long as i go at a medium speed. If i go too fast it will jam and it takes a hesitation of the bolt half way to get it to feed the round. the other is a cabelas special 10T with the accustock and the same magazine that the LRP uses. It pretty much is a feed part way, hesitate, and then feed the rest of the way. It isn't smooth, but works well enough for me that i don't feel the need to mess with it.

[sharpshooter]

The problem lies within the cartridge itself. It has virtually no body taper, and the diameter is bigger at the shoulder. Because it has a .473" case head, most people have the notion that it will feed from a .308 based magazine.

[geezerhood]

After some barrel swapping I finally have come up with two short actions that so far are 100% on feeding the 139 gr Scenar, and one action, a round top center feed, that won't feed reliably with the 139 Scenar or the Hornady Amax 129.

One that does feed 100% is an old flat rear, blued, staggered feed internal mag box in a factory plastic stock with s 22" sporter weight factory 6.5 CM barrel. This will be my son's carry rifle for deer and varmints. It has not had a feeding error yet with the 139 Scenars, regardless of the cycle rate of the bolt, tested hundreds of times with dummy rounds loaded with the Scenar. It appears that the mag box keeps the round lower during feeding than all the others. Hopefully it will also feed some type of hunting or varmint bullet. I have not been able to find any to buy at a reasonable price, so that will come later.

The other one is a from a 300 WSM detachable mag, short, stainless, large shank push feed action with a 6.5 CM heavy barrel in the Archangel stock. It is probably 8 years old. I assembled it today after opening up an oversized recoil lug to fit it as the lug that was on there would not fit in the Archangel stock, plus it was a crappy, bent factory lug. I would have tested it sooner but my order of large shank lugs never showed up, prompting the modification of a small shank lug. I have only run maybe 30 rounds through it out of the 7 and the 10 round mags without having a single jam, regardless of bolt cycling speed. The feed ramp on this action appears to have a more shallow angle compared to the non feeding action that was originally a 243 Win. I may replicate the feed ramp on the 243 action to match the WSM, and see what happens.

Time will tell if they are 100% reliable in feeding, but I am pretty happy with the results. I would like to replicate whatever is happening on at least two other actions so we will each have a heavy barreled 6.5 CM in the Archangel and a lightweight carry gun as well. My son is happy with the reliable feeding carry gun and isn't too worried about having to fiddle with the bolt to cycle the Archangel setup as he doesn't shoot in any situations where fast follow up shots are needed. He just wanted the stock for the adjustments and feel. If it was a single shot he would be OK, but having ten in the mag that he can get to feed fairly well is a bonus. I am hanging on to the WSM in the Archangel because it drives me nuts if a rifle jams even if I am not in a hurry.

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. I will read over everything and see what else I might try to get these other two rifles to work.

[kingdombuilder]

Interesting the wsm is a large shank gun with heavy barrel . My action on creedmoore is from ashburry it is a large shank heavy fluted barrel . The action is really a model 12 type action not really a model 10 . This may be why it functions so well . You seem to be onto something . I wonder if the axis crowd has feeding issues . It is also a different action .

[geezerhood]

I did try a 308 Axis with the removable magazine. It did not feed reliably. Locking up with the bullet jamming on the breech face, just like the removable mag Savage short action.

[Orezona]

Edited. It wasn't helpful.

[geezerhood]

I had a long center feed action sitting in my Savage parts tub so I figured what the heck, see if it will feed the 6.5 Creedmoor. Sure enough, feeds 100% so far. Which lead me to testing an old flat back staggered feed internal mag 110, and was surprised to find that it too would feed the 6.5 CM 100%. That same flat back action also feeds 22-250 Ackley very well. I seem to recall adjusting the feed lips on it about 20 years ago so it would function with the 22-250 AI.

When I first started in on trying to get a reliable 6.5 CM it looked like it was not going to work, but with some further testing, including actions you would normally not think of using for the 6.5 CM, I have now ended up with the following that all work very well:

• Short Action Center Feed that was born as a 300 WSM (This is the only one that works in the short Arachangel stock which was my original desire.)
• Short Action Staggered Feed, very old flat back that was originally a 308 Win i believe.
• Long Action Center Feed that was likely a 30-06 originally (Probably the best candidate for a reliable 6.5 Creedmoor in an Archangel long action stock.)
• Long Action Staggered Feed - old, flat back that was probably a magnum of some kind

I am going to get a long action Archangel to try as well since my goal was to end up with two reliable mag fed 6.5 CMs in Archangels stocks, and two lightweight hunting rifles that would feed at least 4 rounds reliably from a removable or blind mag.