Looking for sourcing recommendation

**Robinhood** · 07-18-2019, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

I simply disagree, based on what I know. There is more to it also, I think. Maybe Dave Kiff could weigh in. But I digress. What do you think Dave could add to the conversation?

I apologize, my comment was not to say Howas are “cheep”. Just that they are mass produced. And big companies ARE NOT in business to LOSE money. Howas are great actions, but they are made via drop forging or investment casting. Not by CNC machining. Do you believe that CNC's are not used by Howa on their actions? Now, Savage actions ARE made from bar stock. (Not the same as CNC machining). As someone who has witnessed CNC machines with bar stock feeders while machining bar stock, I will disagree. The action is round, thus turned on a lathe, and milled. So CNC's cant machine round stock? But a bolt has curves which a mill/lathe combo cannot produce. While it would be extremely inefficient a lathe and mill operator, with the right mill could easily make a bolthead. 5 Axis CNC territory. Otherwise, parts like this are either forged or cast to shape, then finished machined. This why CNC’d parts have that very distinct “nicer” look to them...I.E., the difference in appearance between a Savage & PTG bolt head. I have produced some very nice work on a lathe and a mill. The great thing about cnc's and finishes are the on the fly tool and surface speeds available in the program. Savage uses a deburring or peening process, I don't know which, that causes the slightly beat-up finish on their boltheads. Fred could reveal this and has in another post. Or the difference between a Savage recoil lug, which is press stamped, and a machined aftermarket lug. The knowledge I have comes from years & years of learning.....not what “a friend that worked”, or “an ATF, FBI, CIA agent” TOLD ME.

But, being that this is America, it’s OK if Fred & I or anyone else disagree. I like to believe that when everyone understands the facts we all would agree. Some things are subjective and some things are absolute. Your experience is valuable and gives you a tight range bullshit meter. As I have gotten older and found out that there is a lot of things that I know about but only a few I could be considered an expert in, so my confidence in other people being wrong based on my experiences is not so important. Why, because I became weary of fighting battles on issues where I was not as informed as I thought I was. I still love a good argument but the younger guys and fools can have the "I'm righter than you" battles. Just the facts brother.

I have 33 years modifying metal with either a grinding machine(OD, ID, Surface, Blanchard, Planetary and Jig) or a tooling machine(Lathes, Mills, VTL's HBM's DP's) albeit in a specialized world. I live with tolerance much less than .001" everyday. I have 41years total in manufacturing environment. My BS meter is low with what I know, otherwise I listen closely. Stay humble.