What is a mil?

[yobuck]

I already did in the post above. It's the ASC match in Seneca Rocks, WV. It's a match held on a piece of farm land and not a club or a school. Here is the link again http://www.ascmatch.com/

Thanks for the information, your prior comments and some of the pics caused me to have my opinion about the school.
The power line location for one thing, as those facilities are carefully monitored for potential problems.
Permanent target setups would certainly be visable to the flyovers that take place.
In any event it is a great location to shoot from, and would for sure be a very good place to hunt long range.
Mainly due to its diversity of being able to look in several different directions from the same spot.
Note in the one photo the sun having an affect, which can and does shut things down.
But there you could just start looking in a different direction not yet affected,
and swing back to the earlier spot later in the day. In other words its an all day spot and very few are.
The type of terrain seen is typical to what can be seen thruout that mountain chain.
PA, western MD, W/VA, VA, the Carolinas and even GA offer those type of shooting oppurtunities.
Where PA has its advantage over others, is that much of that type land is public as opposed to private.
Meaning that hunters from other states like MI and FL for example can drive there, spend
about $125 bucks for an over the counter non res license good for the whole year, and go hunt.
As for the actual shooting, in match shooting of any type, its about the shooter and how good he is
compared to the other shooters on that particular day. There are always winners and losers as in any other sport.
Whereas with hunting, and especially long range hunting, there can be several losers with just one shooter.
So in reality it isn't, or at least shouldn't, be about our own individual chest pounding ability as to how good we are.
Because the real reality is that non of us really are, especially in that type environment.
A prime example would be the power line location where the pic shows a righty shooter laying prone probably using a bipod.
He appears to have a pretty good body position even considering the serious slope, which is very important even with a bipod.
But now try to envision a lefty trying to get into a decent position at that same spot. And to complicate it further, as he does,
the target which is a deer, decides to walk off a few hundred feet to his right before stopping again? Suppose its to the right and
also down hill at the same time? Whats that do to the shooters present prone position? And the same thing holds true for the righty
at that location and frankly every location. If the first shot is a poor hit and the animal takes off running, a belly shooter simply cannot
stay on that animal in that type terrain. First off the limited field of the scope alone would assure that. And a spotter, if he even has one, laying in the tall cotton beside him, and looking thru the same type scope would also have lost the animal. Its a recipe for total disaster, and those who don't think so, think that way because theve never done it to have experienced it. Especially in that type of terrain, and that's just one example of the possibilities.

Anybody thinking their a good enough fly fisherman to land a 100# tarpon in the Florida Keys alone, will go home with a different opinion.
The guy running the boat will be responsible for him landing the tarpon, or not landing the tarpon. Its a totally different ball game as stream fishing
for big trout, although a fly rod is used in both cases. With the right equiptment and good people supporting, its not really all that hard.
Same as long range hunting in the eastern wooded mountains.

[Rob01]

A prime example would be the power line location where the pic shows a righty shooter laying prone probably using a bipod.
He appears to have a pretty good body position even considering the serious slope, which is very important even with a bipod.
But now try to envision a lefty trying to get into a decent position at that same spot. And to complicate it further, as he does,
the target which is a deer, decides to walk off a few hundred feet to his right before stopping again? Suppose its to the right and
also down hill at the same time? Whats that do to the shooters present prone position? And the same thing holds true for the righty
at that location and frankly every location. If the first shot is a poor hit and the animal takes off running, a belly shooter simply cannot
stay on that animal in that type terrain. First off the limited field of the scope alone would assure that. And a spotter, if he even has one, laying in the tall cotton beside him, and looking thru the same type scope would also have lost the animal. Its a recipe for total disaster, and those who don't think so, think that way because theve never done it to have experienced it. Especially in that type of terrain, and that's just one example of the possibilities.

If a lefty takes that shot then all he has to do is swap over to a weak hand shot. Something that is easy to do for a person who practices with their rifle to become a better shooter. I go to the range and only shoot left hand on days. Not just prone but off barricades and tripods. I know what you are saying about long range hunting having an animal that can be injured by a bad shot but you still have to use the same marksmanship skills and whether that bullet is going into steel, paper or flesh. You need to be able to build your shot with position, range, wind, angle etc and get a good shot. Of course not taking a shot at something you don't feel ethically able to take.

You seem to imply that match shooters can't shoot an animal at long range. A lot of those guys do hunt long range and do quite well. My rifle smith has hunted all over the world and has a hell of a trophy room. Shooting matches is part of their practice. Being able to shoot in the stress of matches with different locations, weather conditions, stages of fire etc helps build a good shooter. You are not always in 70 degree sunny and no wind days. You are getting rained on, snowed on, high winds, some over 100 degree heat in the field all day shooting and having to do well. You should go out and try to shoot a match and see what is involved in the large amount of skill it takes to do well. It might give you a different view of the match shooter and his over all skills and might help build your skills. Example, can you lay down in Texas wind and hit a 6" moving target 9 times out of 10 at 500 yards? I can. The miss was miss just off the back side by about 2". Still a kill on an animal. That wasn't mentioned as bragging but showing that being able to do something like that gives you a little bit of confidence in your abilities to put that bullet where you need it to be whether it be in a match or a hunt.

[yobuck]

If a lefty takes that shot then all he has to do is swap over to a weak hand shot. Something that is easy to do for a person who practices with their rifle to become a better shooter. I go to the range and only shoot left hand on days. Not just prone but off barricades and tripods. I know what you are saying about long range hunting having an animal that can be injured by a bad shot but you still have to use the same marksmanship skills and whether that bullet is going into steel, paper or flesh. You need to be able to build your shot with position, range, wind, angle etc and get a good shot. Of course not taking a shot at something you don't feel ethically able to take.

You seem to imply that match shooters can't shoot an animal at long range. A lot of those guys do hunt long range and do quite well. My rifle smith has hunted all over the world and has a hell of a trophy room. Shooting matches is part of their practice. Being able to shoot in the stress of matches with different locations, weather conditions, stages of fire etc helps build a good shooter. You are not always in 70 degree sunny and no wind days. You are getting rained on, snowed on, high winds, some over 100 degree heat in the field all day shooting and having to do well. You should go out and try to shoot a match and see what is involved in the large amount of skill it takes to do well. It might give you a different view of the match shooter and his over all skills and might help build your skills. Example, can you lay down in Texas wind and hit a 6" moving target 9 times out of 10 at 500 yards? I can. The miss was miss just off the back side by about 2". Still a kill on an animal. That wasn't mentioned as bragging but showing that being able to do something like that gives you a little bit of confidence in your abilities to put that bullet where you need it to be whether it be in a match or a hunt.

Listen, I applaud your ability as a shooter ok. And I'm not quite as stupid as to say match shooters cant do the things I'm talking about either.
Certainly a good shooter would have an advantage over a lesser quality shooter in any type shooting. But again, your missing the point of my argument in order to bring the shooter more into play as the major issue involved. Why else would you choose to suggest that everybody should become as good as say you are at becoming an ambidextrious shooter?
What would be wrong with someone else using a well designed portable bench, or a good tripod system in order to make a good shot?
There would be nothing wrong with it other than opinion of those who feel it would detract from their individual ability and (ahem), ego.
What I'm saying is, that it isn't about ego, its about killing an animal. The most proficient way of doing that is the proper way to do it.
And that includes both cartridge choice and the shooting method.

As for me not having any match experience, you don't know that do you? Fact is I do have some, and some of my hunting friends have much
much more. Which even they would admit, actually means very little in the overall hunting picture.
Fact is some of the best match shooters ive known, including a few world record holders, were total flops when it came to finding something to shoot at. Which is still the number one priority, followed by all else.
One of my oldest and best friends and every day long range companion for many years, is the first person ever inducted into the hall of fame at Williamsport.
And it wasent for being a good guy with the best stories. Many of those names on that list are or have been good friends. Just about all of them hunt
or did hunt in the same general area as I and many others do. And as stated, not all are/were very successful at it.
As for ones ability to put a bullet where they need it, when they need to at long distances, to me speaks volumes as to who and what I'm dealing with. Guess what my friend, there are lots of branches on all those trees over there. And the cartridge you chose to use was trying to find a little hole to go thru and missed it. And tall cotton laying there next to you is just as dumbfounded as you are over it.
What do you think wind conditions could do at a place like shown in Robs pictures? And you know what, there would be far worse places for that than what you see there.
Where did that one go tall cotton? I dunno, I musta breathed on my scope. lol
When you choose to insult others knowledge of this stuff, then I think you also become fair game.























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