Monkey, i started with IMR4350 @ 59.0 grains and have worked up to 61.0 using lake city 78 brass and sierra 215's and wolf lrm primers. i am not home so i will try to remember the m/v i think it was about 2650-2700. this was from a 30 inch barrel. the 61.0 load is compressed. it is listed in my sierra load book but not on hogdon's web site. smallest group to date is in the high .2's and can keep 5 under half inch if i do my part altho i do find myself not doing my part after 10-15 shots without taking a break.