Dang it Tom. You really have me thinking what to do.Maybe I should have said that I intend to also get the bore guide system with the rod brand and I use a .17 caliber jag in a .22 caliber so I can double the patch thickness so the jag and cleaning rod has less chance to come in contact with the bore ? I like Butch's triple twill patches but there are quite a difference in quality of different patch brands. There was a time when I used heavy diameter fishing line and threaded through the center of the patch and small knotted behind the patch and pulled the patch through that way instead of using a cleaning rod and never used the same piece of line twice, Mason catfish line was cheap and worked well.... I was thinking any cleaning rod can pick up loose debri and act as a sand paper, the less flexible , the more desirable and one piece so the connecting joints are eliminated from the equation. I use the nylon brush, nylon patch holder if I use one at all with the next size smaller jag....I might need help!