Is over penetration wasted energy?

[Slowpoke Slim]

Oh, bad example there Hammer,

Should have used a PROPER example...

Like, a 69-70 Mopar with a 440 big block, 4 spd, 4:56 Sure Grip.




Chevys...

::)

[Hammer]

.

Well, I grew up driving GM and Mopar.

In addition to the Chevys, Buicks, etc... Had Plymouths and Chryslers with 440 V8s.

No Fords.

Later, got into driving Fords with 460 V8s and later V10s in 3/4 ton 4WD farm trucks.

Properly made vehicles should have 60-gallon saddle tanks.


.

[airaddict]

i use 150gr GMX bullets in my 308 with a MV of only 2625. hornady says they have to be above 2200 to begin opening but all my shots ar under 150yrd which the velocity is well over that.

i have not had one deer run but im partial to neck shots. i have taken a head shot at a nice 125lbs sow and turned her inside out. all bullets were pass , including the pig head shot, and i think if i were to get a bad shot by chance i would rather have 2 holes instead of one to make tracking easier. JMHO.

Brian

[tammons]

What over penetration does via a 95 grain barnes bullet at 3600+....

[img width=562 height=450]http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z300/tammons3/Gory%20hunting%20pics%20-%20beware/exitbuckfieldhog27095grbarnes.jpg[/img]

[r29l20]

(Is over penetration wasted energy?) Yes. But it also means you didn't need that much energy in the first place.

[tammons]

I hunting pigs for a while with a 375 ruger loaded with 270 gr barnes bullets.

Above the calculated energy on the pig should have been about 2250 FP which is not that much, but
weird things happen when you push barnes tipped bullets up in the mid 3000 fps and up area.

[borg]

its gonna take x amount of energy to push given object through a given target regardless of velocity. Lets say it takes 900lbs of energy...

Energy is a function of velocity and pounds are not a unit of energy.

[Uncle Jack]

I really do sometimes wonder how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin.

uj

[tammons]

For me that would be how many Pigs can dance on the head of a pin

[irondog54]

It has been a rule of exterior balistics for decades thet it is dangerous to purposely limit penetration on live targets.if you don't reach the vitals you just wound. Both velocity and inertia rounds kill. Just in differentr ways. I tend towards heavier bullets. Two holes make better blood trails.

[wrvet05]

i've personally killed deer, antelope, and elk with heavier 30-06 bullets 168 grn hornady sst's to be exact and let me tell you if they took any steps on impact it was because they were in mid stride. Now if i want to step up causing large wound channels for animals such as bears i will go to the slower velocicity and heavier 200grn hornady interlocks in my 35 whelen. All in all i agree with everyone else use what works best for you across the board. In accuracy, and most importantly in my mind confidence in your weapon of choice that it will get the job done.

[Tracer]

Tammons all I can say about Barnes Bullets is simply that I tried them for over 10 years but could never get them to open up on big game animals or when shot into the stock tank. However, the biggest pain in the butt was trying to get them to shoot small little groups on targets at the range. I know I spent at least a 1,000 dollars over the 15 years I played around with those bullets not counting my time at the bench and the Range mind you. Perhaps it is just the fact that my rifles then were model 70 Winchesters in 243 Win, 270 Win, 300 win mag, .338 Win mag, 375H&H & 375-Wby! Now days I simply shoot Sierra on paper, Hornady for varmints/predators. Nosler Partitions, Swift A Frames and Woodleigh in my big bores.

Now I don't believe it is wasted energy but then again I am no phyics teacher! I certainly do like an exit wound on all big game animals. Blood on the ground makes for easy tracking and recovery of the animal. I have stated this many times over the years, an animal shot through both shoulders is NOT going very far at all.

[tammons]

Barnes bullets are tricky to dial in and they definitely dont group as tight as some other bullets.
I dont care for the non tipped versions, but IMO the newer tipped bullets are superb on game and more accurate.
They open up faster, but you still have to watch your shot distance. That is one thing that is nice about the 95 gr bullet.
It is designed to open at a lower speed.

[Lead Poison]

"Is over penetration wasted energy?"


Absolutely, positively...NO! IT IS NOT WASTED ENERGY!

An exit hole is always a plus when you need to trail an animal and is something I always want.

Happy bloodtrails everyone!

[savageboy]

This is just my 2 cents based on 20+ years of killing Im sure 100+ deer with everything from: 12Ga. slugs, 30-06 w/ 150 gr. tips, 300 win. mag. w/ 150 gr. tips, 7mm-08 w/ 140 gr. SGK, Nos. Bal tip, 250 Sav. w/ 100gr. SGK, .357 pistol w/ 140gr. xtp handloads, etc. (sure Im leaving some out) and then the much debated .223 w/ 65gr. Sierra Game kings.

Here is my non- scientific, yet very accurate observation: Everything except the .223- all deer that were hit properly (behind the shoulder in a heart/ lung shot w/ no major bone like shoulder or spine) being hit- 90+ percent of them, buck hard, and whatever way they are pointed or the impact spins them to, they dig their feet in and run flat out till all oxygen is gone and fall over dead- 20-80ish or so yds away. Hit a major bone- spine, shoulder/ s, they drop, maybe flop around till dead or you finish them off w/ back up pistol or whatever.
About 6 years ago I started hunting w/ my AR (18" bbl 1:7 twist, SPR- special purpose rifle configuration- collapable stock, full length gas tube, etc.) w/ in my opinion, one of the best bullets for thicker skinned game w/ a .223- the Sierra 65gr game king handload at about 3100fps at the muzzle. Killed 15 deer with it. Initially just took it for something new to hunt with and just to fill doe tags on the last day of our season here in NC. Here are the results, they amazed me: All but one neck shot were heart/ lung shots from 50-165yds. 11 of the 15 deer (including the neck shot) dropped right there like they were hit w/ a hammer. Layed still, then maybe kicked a few times and died. The others did exactly what all the others did w/ the larger/ heavier calibers, bucked, ran, died.
I have to draw the conclusion that there is something to the hydrostatic shock, energy dump theory, or whatever happens inside of something when that little bullet goes in and shreads everything in the chest cavity. Prob. 1/2 the shots didn't have an exit hole. Some of the exit holes were multiple smaller holes or they were large single holes. Either way, with our smaller deer here in NC, that combination of .223/ 1:7 twist, 65gr. SGK killed those deer in a way I have never seen- even w/ 12ga slugs or a 300 win mag at 40 yards w/ a proper hit behind the shoulder.
Would I take the AR on anything like a trophy buck hunt, hunt up north or in the mid west for a larger, heavier deer w/ bigger bones, etc.- No way since I have lots of other rifle choices. They all killed them, but I do believe that like the .300 Win mag, energy is unused as the bullet zips thru them, etc. But if a non perfect shot happened, large bone hit, etc. the larger calibers are the proper choice. They all died and in my opinion all would be very good choices for the ethical, responsible hunter. I picked my shot, etc. and am experienced, etc. so the .223 was devastating and killed in a way I have never witnessed in 20+ years of hunting

[Tracer]

Savageboy much of what you posted is also my experience with deer and several caliber rifles in the past 30 years or better. I kind of think Uncle Buck summed it up in his post. I really does not make a bit of difference, I like exit holes myself. If it is a trophy animal, I have always aimed for taking out both shoulders and that keeps em in close by without having to track animals.