Reply With QuoteBetter trigger, mid to top tier scope.
I purchased an Axis II Precision in .223 about 2 months ago as my first bolt action gun. I've always run AR's and wanted to see if this could improve my overall skills, and it has come thru with shining colors.
I've added a JKL Bag Rider, an extended bolt handle from Glades, and a Desh Bolt lift kit, which really improved the action. I've got the knurled knobs from MDT to adjust the cheek riser as well. Running an 8 inch suppressor with a Vortex Venom 5x25 Scope and it sits on a Magpul Bipod. I'm not really impressed with the Magpul and intend to replace it, possibly with a UTG Big Bore unit.
Gun is a tack driver up to 200 yards, and I'm confident it will work just as well at longer ranges. It's a different style of shooting from my tactical AR experience and has helped me to integrate them into my skills.
My question, what "refinements" should I be looking at to make the gun even better?
Better trigger, mid to top tier scope.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
shoot it and shoot it often. it is easy to fall out of your groove and not shoot well.
I'm retired and shoot a lot as I have a 100 yard range on my property. I also reload my own rounds, so keeping my skills sharp isn't a problem. MY guns have all been AR's up to this point and in that world, their are endless modifications we can make to our rifles. I am looking for info on aftermarket parts to make the gun even better. At the ranges I will normally shoot, up to 400 yards, I'm confident the barrel is more than sufficient. Are their aftermarket upgrades to the bolt system I should be looking at?
The AccuTrigger assembly seems to be fine after making adjustments. Vortex scope is more than adequate as well.
It's possible these upgrades don't exist for the Savage, but I at least wanted to ask.
When you start to stretch it out, set out a 4" gong at 400 yards and have some fun!
Looking forward to shooting longer distances. Until then, I'm focusing on the 5 shots all inside a 3 inch circle. Always seems to be a flyer in there to spoil it.
1) Clean the barrel. You can control a clean barrel but you cannot control a fowled barrel.
2) Practice with Purpose! Just like any athlete you need to break down your shooting and practice that individual break down. For example practice just trigger pull for 5-7 shots. Firing 5-7 not only works for statistics at the target it allows you to keep the barrel cool...another barrel trouble shooting problem controlled.
Its important you do not practice until you fail. Simply stop shooting if your practice is acceptable. Next day repeat.
3) Remember, flyers are a "usually" induced by the shooter. Go to a range at least once a week in the beginning and get a mentor to watch you (they are cheap!). Listen to the mentor and head their advise. Develop a plan to address the observation.
4) Option 2...You are shooting 10lb rifle, thus in a .223 recoil is low recoil. I would have a mentor teach you "free recoil" methods on the bench and eliminate "hard recoil".
5) As mentioned get rid of the 2.5 -6 lb Accu-trigger that came with the Rifle. Go here to purchase:
https://www.gunshack.com/savage-targ...search=trigger there is lots of info on this site regarding the swap. If not ask as many on here have the knowledge to help you with the exchange.
6) If you do multiple modifications on your rig and with the exception of a complete rebuild, IE: change the trigger, change the rings, modify the bolt etc. Try to do one at a time, and then go to the range to see the effects. Often guys will do multiple mods and then shoot. They walk away frustrated because they have no clue which mod caused the problem.
7) Get a good inch pound torque driver and go over your rig to make sure screws are tight per specs. To many times I have seen and also had an issue where a scope mount screw is loose.
8) Get a good log book, it will help immensely if things all of a sudden go south. Indeed log every 5-7 shot group.
9) During practice put out wind flags. Pay attention to the flag movements and how other movements like grass, leaves and mirage correlate to the flags. One of the hardest things you can learn is wind.
10) Get an app for your phone like Ballistic-AE or GeoBalistics it will help in windage and elevation on your scope.
Notice! I suggested little changes to the gun. Except the trigger change. You said it drives tacks so don't change a thing right now. Hell, I would even keep that heavy trigger that installed, if your shooting good groups. People want bolt on fix for everything these days and when it comes to shooting there is no such thing as long as a person manages the weapon. Rail guns even have human induced errors.
Humans want to blame things other then themselves. When in facts Shooters forget that most failures are the holder of the rifle!
"Gun is a Tack Driver up to 200 yards" What ever that means :)
Have you tried it at 400, 600 ?
I would try it and see if you need to fix something that ain't broke.
Some great advice overall. The trigger recommendation has me curious. It reduces pull to 6oz? I've replaced the stock triggers in my AR's to 2lb pulls, so the adjustment to the AccuTrigger down to 2lbs felt "normal" to me. Two radically different styles of shooting tho. I'm going to investigate this change you mention!Originally Posted by LDSILLS
I've read SOO many negative comments from alleged "long distance" people on different forums about Savages and I don't believe 1% of them have much, if any actual experience with the brand, their just repeating the mantra others spew. The mere mention of Savage throws them into constant seizures of Tourettes Syndrome.
I know I'm the weak link in the shooter ensemble. I just want to know about any enhancements or upgrades I should know about since it is an out of the box rifle.
I'd work on just shooting it first. Get used to how it shoots and what it likes. If it's a 'good' barrel you should be under MOA for every group and under 1/2MOA on some (many?).
There is no real reason to change anything if it shoots the way you want. I've still got the stock trigger on my Axis but I did replace the springs with lighter ones and put in some shims. A good scope will pay off more than some of the other changes.
Went to the local range 100 yard range at the State Park today with a fellow shooter whom I consider a local guru. He's a true MOA shooter in that tight groups are what he's after with his rifles. Constantly trying new bullet/powder combinations while chronographing and documenting everything. Always talking about bullet depth and the effects on his shooting. He only shoots 5 shots at a time before cooling barrel down with his Magnetospeed. I've learned an awful lot from him in a short amount of time.
I shot 60 rounds in 5 shot groups. Targets were downloaded from here, 6 targets, 3 inch wide each. All rounds were in a 2 inch circle except for a few fliers of my own mistakes. He suggested I try a different set of bags as he doesn't think the rifle is settling down enough to be totally stable.
Gonna go that route. We both agreed the rifle is not going to improve that much, if any with a new/modified trigger.
It's apparent there is some issues, and I can't agree it's the trigger. Are you loading your ammo or buying
a specific brand and grain weight ?? Did you do any real load development without the can on it ??
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
Loading my own.
55gr FMJ Berry's
Alliant 1200r, 22.9gr
CCI 450 Primers
Haven't shot it without can since I bought it.
I'd try some good bullets first. Mine didn't do very well (just over MOA) with regular 55gn bullets. Went to 69 and 77 Sierra Match Kings and groups got smaller immediately. Tweak the load for your barrel length. Second biggest change, which it seems you are working on, is rests. I notice a large improvement when I went to better rest and rear bag.
Next, listen to whatever Fuj says :)
Load development, Load development, Load development.
Pay attention to your shooting buddy.
Load development is the best accutacy improvement you can make to any rifle in good working order period.
Try different weight and styles of bullets, different powders different seating depths and ladder test.
That magic one hole load is out there.
I'd dare say maximizing accuracy is more often than not as much the load as the rifle.
A good wife and a steady job has ruined many a great hunter.
Sell off those Berry's or mag dump them in the AR's. I can't tell ya' what bullet to buy until we know
your barrels twist rate. However your safe with the 50 grain class bullets. Not a fan of Hornady bullets
but will say get the 52gr match or ELD. My personal favorite is the 52gr Sierra Match King. If you have
a 7 to 8 twist barrel, the SMK 77 gr......"Powder".....2400-R is a double base ball powder. Find a single
base stick powder. I'd recommend H-322 first, then Varget......Do your load work ups with no suppressor.
Yes it will put a dent in your wallet, but it costs way more to chase good groups with bad components.
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
Twist rate is 7 with a 22" barrel.
Varget is very difficult to get ahold of. Will check LGS for the H-322.
Been running the A1200R and CFE223 in my guns as I have always been an AR guy.
This is a whole new road for me to be on.
Update:
Went to LGS and he had 2x1lb cannisters of Varget put away for a customer who never picked it up, so it's mine now. No 77gr, but he did have 69SMK's, so I picked up a 100 of them to try out.
Have to say, it's a good thing my AR rounds only cost about 9cents each in bulk. Don't even want to give them a taste of this stuff!
Going to load at Hodgdon's data = 24gr to start and shoot some rounds. It says max is 26gr.
Update #2
Shot 70 rounds today, 50 of the Varget/SMK69 and 20 of the AR1200/55Gr I have been shooting.
Difference is pretty amazing for me. While the old rounds performed as usual, not bad, not great, the Varget/SMK rounds iinstantly became noticeable once I make a few minor adjustments to the scope. New loads were far more consistent and accurate. All were 4 shot groups. Tighest was .69, largest spread was a .86. This is a far cry from the old loads I have been shooting.
Best day out with this gun so far.
There Ya' go !! Even ugly girls can dress up real nice.....
Spend some time and get your brass as consistent as possible. Uniform the primer pockets
and clean up the flash holes for any burrs. Neck tension is very important. My advice at this
point would be to use a .003" interference. If you have carbon in the neck, leave it alone.
It's a good thing. Consistent bullet release is also key to good numbers. Once your confident
the brass is right, start your seating depth tests. I'd just start at .010"out then move in .003"
at a time. I would expect a 1/2 MOA rifle. Set a goal for yourself to shoot a 1", 5 shot group at
200 yards.
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
I really appreciate your help. I advanced miles yesterday with your recommendations. I have a Franklin Arsenal Platinum case prep unit I started using about a month ago to prepare my brass. After yesterday, and some more shooting with this load to really dial it in, my next goal is to shoot a 5 shot group in a 1MOA target bullseye at 100 yards. I'm confident the gun is fully capable of it, now it's some fine tuning of the load while working on the biggest variable in all this, and that's me.
Do you have any recommendations for both front and rear bags?
What do you know about RMR bullets for reloading? They seem to get pretty high reviews, but you know what the internet can say....
If the 69 grain SMK bullet isn`t the best all purpose .223 bullet ( 7-9 twists ), it`s got to be in the top 2 or 3. My Savage 12 LRPV with 7 twist absolutely loves them. When I don`t screw up the shot, a sub-MOA group at 500 yards is more than possible with this gun/bullet combo. Not surprised at your results with them.
Congrats on the improvement.
Now you can start to work on your technique as well. Watch or read some of the techniques good shooters used to improve their setup and trigger pull. The important thing is a good setup and trigger pull.
Shooters pro shop sells Nosler over runs and seconds factory direct at a discount. Might try some of the 69gr custom competitions as an economy option. I know they currently have quite a few of those over runs in stock. Think it like $24 per hundred or $209 per K if they work out and your rifle likes em.
A good wife and a steady job has ruined many a great hunter.
I bought 300 SMK69's and ordered 250 RMR69's to try out as well as 3 more pounds of Varget to add to what I already had.
Appreciate info on Shooters Pro. Will try some of theirs out.
Been tuning my Varget/SMK69 loads and today I almost hit my holy grail. Shot 100 yards, and 4 of the 5 were dead in the 3/4" bullseye and the 5th shot just barely outside. Max spread of the 5 was .77 inch with 2 bullets thru same hole.
Shooting MOA is far easier with this combination, but doing it all inside the bullseye has been a huge challenge. Still haven't achieved my goal, but I know it's within reach now.
Sure appreciate all the help for ya'll!
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