Look at Eric Cortina's method for setting FL size dies. I would not be concerned with how many thousandths it is set back, just that it is 'enough' to fit your chamber and allows for smooth action. Why would you remove the mandrel? Just curious.
Why can't you use the proper mandrel with your FL or neck size die?
Its just a different method I read about.Originally Posted by charlie b
1. Full length sizing die with ball
2. Bushing die
3. Using a expander mandrel
With number one, you are limited to combos provided by the die maker. Two might be inconsistent if your brass is not a consistent thickness at the neck since you are sizing the outside of the brass neck. With three, you know bullet diameter and can choose the inside neck diameter to give you whatever tension you desire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXU9oSX0qAY
Ernest T, what is Your end goal ? You are delving into some aspects of reloading that are precision methods for competition. Do You intend to compete, and if not, how will You judge Your success ?
...
I don't have an end goal except small groups at 100 yards. I don't shoot competition, but I am working my way towards shooting at 1000 yards. I'm at 500 and that was surprisingly easy to accomplish. I'm thinking I need to tighten up my reloading technique as the range increases.
Right now, I can tell the neck tension in my loads is not consistent just by the way the bullet seats. The force required is inconsistent, so I'm trying to address that issue. I can shoot six five-shot groups and get three of them into 1/2" and three with flyers in them. At first, I thought it was probably my shooting, but it could also be my loads.
I figure I'll try different things until I get it right or get tired of fiddling with it.
So lets assume you wanted to switch from sizing the case neck with an expander ball in a full length sizing die, to using an expander in a separate step so you could adjust neck size for different neck tensions. Your options are to buy a full set of 11 expanders for $174 or the individual expanders for $21.50 each. I'm thinking that most of those sizes, included in the set, aren't going to be used as they cover a pretty wide range of sizes. The question is, which size expander do you start with? I don't have a cylinder gauge small enough to measure the case neck I'm getting from my Lee full length sizing die, but the expander ball measures .262". That seems like the logical place to start -- and maybe buy the size .001 above and below that expander. They also sell sizes expanders .0005 above and below .262 so you can get half sizes. Any opinions?
One thing you should keep in mind. How much case tension isn't really the issue. It is how consistent is the case tension.
The idea behind custom necks and such is to reduce the amount of sizing needed to reload. The reason for that is to work the brass less, introducing less stresses in the brass (and prolonging case neck life). Unless you change to a custom chamber you are kinda stuck with how much the case will expand during firing. If you want a case to match your chamber you can go to Forstner or Hornady and get custom dies made to match your fired brass.
---------------------
Forstner Custom Neck Honing (Optional)
Diamond stoning process enlarges the inside dia. to prevent over-sizing due to thick neck walls. Useful for brands of brass cases with thicker neck walls or when you do not intend to outside neck turn case necks that have thickened after repeated firings. Please note:
1. No more than .008″ stock removal from your existing die neck diameter is possible.
2. Honing is done in increments of one half thousandth of an inch (.0005″), meaning that your specified inside diameter must be either .XXX0″ or .XXX5″.
Custom machining cost (below) applie,
And from the accurate shooter folks:
1. Purchase a Forster full-length sizing die. Measure a loaded round with a bullet seated, and note the outside neck diameter. Then send your die to Forster and for $10 (plus shipping) Forster will hone the neck to the dimension you specify. For bolt guns, we suggest .002" under the neck diameter of a loaded round. For gas guns, go .003" under. Total cost is about $45.00, including the die.
2. Hornady can make you a custom full-length sizing die for about $75.00 plus shipping. Just send them a few fired cases and a reamer print (if you have it). They can create a die that gives you ideal neck tension, as well as just the right amount of sizing at the shoulder and web. Call Hornady and ask for Lonnie Hummel. Scott Parker recently had a die like this made and he reports: "Average runout for 65 rounds was .0004". All 65 rounds showed less than .001" runout."
------------------------------
Another path would be to use bushing dies. FL or neck size only. Then you can buy the die and a neck bushing of your choice.
The next step in all this would be if you decide to neck turn all of your brass. That is something that used to be common due to inconsistencies in factory brass. These days a lot of factory brass is pretty good. And you can always get Lapua or Norma if you want better quality.
And don't forget the annealing part. If you choose to go that route then you need to anneal each one equally.
I decap in a separate step with the LEE Universal decapping die. This gives Me a feel for the condition of the primer pockets. I full length size and bump the shoulder with a Redding Body Die. I neck size with the LEE Collet Die. This aligns the inside of the neck with the center or the case. Minimal runout. It makes the inside neck smooth and pushes irregularities to the outside. I set neck tension with a mandrel. Sinclair Expander Die from Brownells $39.99, stainless steel mandrels $9.99 ea.
Now, David Tubb (knowledgeable, look Him up) has stated “if You load into the lands, neck tension is irrelevant”??? That’s what He said.
Many precision shooters load into the lands.
But again, none of this matters unless a specific goal is desired. Like winning a match.
“acceptable accuracy” can be achieved with a Model 94 Winchester shooting factory ammo. JUST MY OPINION
Since I had a few cratered primers, I sent the bolt to Desh to work on the firing pin and install the bolt lift modification. This is what the bolt, firing pin and primers look like after the bolt work. I don't see a lot of difference, but the primers aren't cratered at the max load like they were before. I still have not achieved the accuracy or consistency with StaBall 6.5 that I did with the RL-16. Groups are + or - one inch and I don't have any 1/2 inch or smaller groups. I'm thinking I need to start adjusting the CBTO to see if that will tighten up the groups.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks