Hello all!!
New to the group.
This site was recommended to me by Savage Arms because Savage could not answer my question.
I recently purchased the M110 Elite Precision in 223. I understand due to pressures etc., that the factory 556 is not recommended.
My question: Is it safe to reload a 556 case and fire in the 110 Elite Precision? Any issue with case dimensions? or any other concerns.
Thank you for your time.
Regards
For all intents and purposes the cases are the same. However, most 5.56 cases have thicker brass and will have smaller internal capacities. Be safe and load away...
It’s fine to reload the brass. It’s also probably fine to shoot military 5.56. Bout the worst you might see some flattened primers, maybe a case will be a little sticky in the chamber. But safety concern? Not in modern rifles. I have yet to see ANY 223 chamber KB from say an m193 or m855 round. Just sayin’. Certainly follow precautions when reloading. Never load max charge in military brass. But then, that should be followed regardless of brass.
Hi Dave,
Just an FYI.
I call Savage regarding shooting factory 556 in the 110 Elite Precision and the Savage tech. guy said absolutely not because of the high pressures the round produces.
Savage does not market this rifle as 223/556 only in 223 and that is why I called them.
Regards
If you look further Savage says to not fire any military ammo of ANY caliber in their rifles. No 7.52x51 NATO, no 7.62x39, no .30 Ball (military .30-06)m etc.
This is a liability issue. Savage will only recommend what is stamped on the barrel. This is to further prevent the average person from loading the wrong caliber round in their firearms.
the guy knows little other than what the LAWYERS told him to say.
YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT FACTORY AMMO AND THEN RELOADING BRASS 223 VS 5.56
there is about a 7000 psi diff in the two ammo's.
higher pressure is a POSSIBILITY IN A CUSTOM SHORT THROATED VARMINT RIFLE..not in a long range 1/7 twist rifle
in the usa due to lawyers it is unlikely you will find 556 ammo loaded hitter than 223...just because so many rifles are marked both.
as far as the brass goes, for accuracy mil brass is smaller in vol and less quality.
one day when i was bored i weight sorted some mil brass, then filly prepped a large lot, then re weight sorted.
ended up with 30 or so cased that had the same VOLUME. A lot of work, lapua match, ot sort thru a 1000 new win,
Originally Posted by Sig77
Have you ever seen any reload data 5.56 vs .223? Me either.
Match brass. Fire form. Shave to desired length. Reload on.
I shoot a really hot military load from a 10action .223
Cheers mate
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EXACTLY! 5.56 refers to the Chamber Saami specs....it’s not the ammunition. I’ve loaded 223 much hotter than 5.56 in the past. Granted, it was used in my ARs. People that continue to argue I always ask, well....where is the 223 Wylde ammunition?
This is one area where the military brass is usually larger volume than other mfg brass.
I still use Lapua just because of the number of times I can reload it. I got tired of less than 5 reloads per case of the cheaper stuff. Unless you get if for free or you have a big stash of it.
Yep.
Lake City is preferred. Remove crimp, Size, trim, load and fire away. It will never hurt to anneal after ever couple of firings so it will last longer.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
A pretty decent read:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/
I agree. Thanks for that. I like his other stuff as well.
Sig77---Be on the safe and reasonable side of the question and just fire factory ammo marked .223 Remington or if you reload, stay within reloading manuals guidelines for .223 Remington. There is NO difference between the brass between .223 and 5.56mm other than the headstamp and 5.56 brass loaded for and to military specs as earlier posts will be a bit thicker in wall thickness, but not that much. I've reloaded many Lake City and PMC brass that was marked 5.56 for a .223 bolt rifle.
If you want a further read I'd post the link, but I have no idea how to do, but go to RugerForum.Net and read a posting by Iowegn, a well respected and knowledgeable shooter and gunsmith. Go to the e-Library and check out Iowegan's article titled '.223 Rem/5.56mm NATO Ammo and Chambers'. A real revealing, informative, and interesting article. The Ruger Forum's sections can be found by clicking the 'stacked' ._ symbol just to the right of a circled 'new' in the upper right hand corner of the screen. Give's the full skinny on .223 vs 5.56mm.
Should a person shoot 5.56mm full NATO 62 grain bullets in a rifle chambered for .223 Remington, alot of shooters will say it's ok. Old saying--'Let the buyer beware'! Following basic and proven reloading recipes with 50-55 grain bullets, accurate ammo can be loaded to various velocities fps and accuracy. I have a Savage Model 14 American Classic in .223 I bought a year ago and dead on groups can be attained. You don't need to load to military specs. I'll load a bit different for my semi-auto chambered 5.56mm's, but I'm not using them to fight in the trench's at an enemy shooting back at me with them either. If shooting factory ammo for your .223 rifle, a wide margin of bullets/velocities of ammo can be used if in supply. Don't fall into trap of someone who buys/attains 5.56mm NATO ammo because its all that is available. Savage warrants their products for a reason and says NOT TO due certain things for a reason. If you access Iowegan's post on the Ruger Forum you'll see why not to shoot ammo marked 5.56mm NATO with 62 grain bullets.
Ammo marked M193 with 55 grain bullets is nothing but the original ammo designed for the M16/AR15 back in the early days of development of the cartridge. In one of his posts on another question on the Ruger Forum when the subject came up, Iowegan advised that alot of ammo producers mark their 5.56mm ammo with 55 grain bullets 'NATO' for selling purposes. It is in reality a throwback to the early days of the M16, but ammo marked 5.56mm Nato with 55 grain bullets is nothing more and the same as .223 Remington. Just don't fire/shoot ammo marked M-855 5.56mm NATO with the 62 grain bullets in your .223 rifle. This is due to the longer 62 grain bullet and shape of its ogive when chambered in a rifle marked/chambered for .223 Remington seating more forward in the throat, even touching the lands. This is where the higher pressures are generated. Why risk well being and damage to your rifle just for the 'hype' of shooting full military NATO 62 grain ammo. Zipped up .223 ammo can be loaded, but with bullets more in line with the 55 grainers. Most of what I've penned here comes from Iowegan's article.
In my years of shooting, pushing 60 of them and my 21 years of law enforcement, I've seen plenty of "Johnny-I Don't Give a Crap' and 'Johnny-I'm gonna really impressive everyone' types toss established safety and rules when it come to firearms and many of the times it has resulted in damaged firearms and physical injury. Many of em will come to a range, shooting or hunting area bouncing in in their big tire 4-wheel drive pickup, wearing their baseball cap backwards, wearing a flannel shirt, and have a big chew of tobacco in their mouth or a cigarette between their teeth. Pull out their hand held or shoulder fired howitzer they've loaded the ammo to the Nth degree and have the attitude, "I'll show em what shootin is, what this baby can do"!!! A less than harmonious outcome many times results. This is stretchin it, but many times true, but the moral of the story is "Why take the chance."
Just sayin!!!!!!!
There is all kinds of 556 data. You just have to look. SW powders has a bunch of it. So does Lovex. The maker of SW.Have you ever seen any reload data 5.56 vs .223? Me either.
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I use LC once fired 556 brass in 12 FTR 223. FL sized, pocket swaged, trimmed, etc. Its 223 when it comes out of press. FIRED case capacity 31.0 gr H20 in my chamber.
Try the Hornady Manual. It has data for 223 Remington AND 5.56 NATO. Sierra does also, in a round about way, they list it as 223 Service Rifle.Have you ever seen any reload data 5.56 vs .223? Me either.
Match brass. Fire form. Shave to desired length. Reload on.
I shoot a really hot military load from a 10action .223
Cheers mate
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
To say that there is no difference? Not so much. I have been 'Rolling My Own' since 1974 and have used 5.56 and 223 brass interchangeably, just watch your load data. Back off a little when using Mil Spec brass and you will be fine.
Let the flame war begin!
Randie
Fort Smith, AR
You will find that the biggest differences in the US made Lake City 5.56 cases vs the .223 case is hard ness. And if you want your brass to last a long time then do not load HOT.
223 -vs- 5.56: FACTS and MYTHS – Ultimate Reloader
Partially correct. LC brass is both thicker & harder in key areas. LC brass is very good brass. It’s not match, but can be made darn close with a little brass prep. It makes fantastic everyday, STUFF. H.T.F., & range loads. Most guys get 6-8 loads out of it.. not pushing it too hot. I’ve known some to get 10 no problem. Typically it’s the primer pockets that give up first.
The thickest area of the 5.56 case is the flash hole web that adds strength to the base of the case.
I have two AR15 type rifles and a Ruger bolt action with a 5.56 chamber. And at 71 years of age, I buy once fired Lake City 5.56 cases and see no difference with older eyes than with more expensive brands of brass.
I don't pay attention to 5.56 or .223. Maybe if I had an older rifle I might take a bit of care.
I looked up the Sierra information and compared to Hodgdon. 69gn Sierra Match King loads, Varget powder.
AR-15 data 26.1gn max 2.260oal (Federal case)
Bolt data 26.4gn max 2.260oal (Federal case)
Hodgdon 26.0gn max 2.235oal (Win case) I wonder why Hodgdon loads them shorter? Their test barrel is also a 1:12 instead of the faster twists
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