?? Boyds pro varm. - no pillar/bedding (thoughts) ??

[charlie b]

I used mine 'raw' for about 1000 rounds. Keep in mind this is a .223 Axis so it isn't stressing the stock at all. I later bedded it with JB Weld. Did not see a difference in accuracy before and after. But, it was shooting 0.5MOA raw, and that is about as good as I can shoot. So, if it 'improved' I'll never know since I am the limiting factor.

PS if you have plastic bottom hardware then I'd suggest upgrading to metal trigger guard and such. The plastic did not give repeatable torque values for me.

[CFJunkie]

I know that some people just prefer wood stocks, but all I am interested in is accuracy so a synthetic stock doesn't bother me, as long as they have an aluminum stabilizer in the stock.

I chose an Oryx chassis for both of my 12 FVs, one in .223 and one in 6.5mm CM.
I decided on the Oryx because the synthetic factory stock on the 12 FV 6.5mm CM twisted on every shot (no aluminum stabilizer like in the Accu-Stocks).
I liked the Oryx so much that I bought another one for the .223.

The Orxy also is set up for AICS detachable mags, so the hidden magazine issues disappear.
The .223 hidden mag on the 12 FV is good, but the 1/2 inch spacer in the bolt made it difficult for me to load bullets that are loaded to be close to the lands. Geezers like me have fingers that aren't as nimble as you younger shooters. That was another reason I went with the Oryx for the .223 even though its factory stock didn't flex.
I found a slight improvement in accuracy with both rifles.
I actually saw more improvement with the .223 12 FV in the Oryx stock than with the 6.5mm CM, but both showed accuracy improvement.
I can't explain why the .223 showed more improvement, but, for me, the Oryx just allows me to set up more consistently with both rifles.

[Dave Hoback]

Many find wood stocks very beautiful, but they offer no performance gain over a synthetic stock or Aluminum Chassis. Raw wood will always present the opportunity for creep. I am not one who believes in “tuning” Action screws. I believe they should be tight enough to not allow creep, yet not so tight as to introduce fatiguing torque. The problem with wood, it can & WILL creep. As Charlie pointed out, not too much a concern with lighter cartridges. But will continue getting worse with the more powerful the caliber/cartridge. Not to mention the warping/bending/twisting game that moister, heat & humidity can play on wood. Even pillared & bedded, wood offers no performance enhancement over its synthetic/metallic brethren.

I know many love their wood stocks & knife handles, as they do leather sheaths & holsters. But for over two decades I have been a fan of synthetics & billet aluminum for the proven performance increase. Although, I’m even more of a fan of going with your choice. Look at the shooting you will be doing, and get what makes you happy. The point of all this is enjoyment after all.

[ice tea]

CHARLIE, I'm not familar w/ way axis mounts, or if you meant it was low stress because its only a .223. I'm intending to put this on a .223 also, byt the nxt one will be 308. I've had these different FV's for two yrs, and had to wait for swfa scopes etc., and just been busy, and want to use/enjoy them for a while, before putting to much time/effort in them. So what your saying sounds like i can mount it and shoot. The metal guards are steel. thanks

CF JUNKIE I remeber you well, and have read your detailed findings/results. Two yrs ago, I was less than a day away from ordering a $1200 savage, and what you were saying, changed my mind in to getting three 12FV's instead, so your the reason I'm faced w/ this issue LOL, :) . Nathan also shares your thoughts. I dont think I can enjoy a chasis though. I held one similar to the oryx in a store, and it just dont feel right. I also dont like the feel or a AR. I dont think anyone can argue the reasons you gave for accuracy/practicality.

DAVE I understand what your saying, and agree. It took me yrs to accept plastic, instead of wood. Part reason, I accepted plastic, was the laminated wood these days , isnt what i think as wood. So, I been through 4 choate tacticals this summer. Everyone of them had a problem, and have sent them back. I dont want to see a fifth one, and I dont think Choate or its distributors want to see me either. I'm not talking cosmetic problems either. What I will say, is the people at Choate are good people, as there distrbutors, and covered shipping costs, and didnt try to deny the problems.. So I think the next step in plastic that has similar form, would be the HS Precision, and then we need a bottom metal/mag, so $700 is alot to add to the once cheap priced 12fv. So I'm still open for other reccomendations/sugggestions of a similar shaped plastic stock, but a Boyds wood for under 200 dollars, it sounds up my alley. Ii live in a relatively dry climate, Also, I think it will be a good learning experiance for me to screw around w/ bedding/pillars etc. Maybe this winter I can find the spare time for that. Thanks for the replies.

[charlie b]

Yes, not much stress cause it is a .223. Also, the Axis has (until recently) a separate piece of steel that works as a recoil lug, not permanently attached to the stock or action. Kind of like a keyway on an motor shaft. I understand the newer Axis has the lug fixed in the stock. Neither of which, to me, is a great solution. One reason I won't buy another Axis.

And, yes, with the 110 action I'd just install and shoot. Then decide if you want to install pillars and/or bed the action. For the .308 I'd probably bed at least the recoil lug area.

FWIW, there have been some of the Boyd's laminate stocks delaminate with use. Pillars and/or bedding will probably reduce the likelyhood of that happening.

[ice tea]

Bunch of good info there, cuz I was thinking of getting an axis in long action. Also, you mentioning laminate damge, I take it then the inside of the stock is laminated. I didnt know that, and thought Ii could sand the inner walls to fit barrel channel etc. If I do sanding, that might open things up more to moisture etc., like Dave was cautioning me about.I think there might be some errors on Boyds website about inner Barrel wall demnsions and descriptions , that sound conflicting. I'm going to try talking to them about it. Thanks

Yes, not much stress cause it is a .223. Also, the Axis has (until recently) a separate piece of steel that works as a recoil lug, not permanently attached to the stock or action. Kind of like a keyway on an motor shaft. I understand the newer Axis has the lug fixed in the stock. Neither of which, to me, is a great solution. One reason I won't buy another Axis.

And, yes, with the 110 action I'd just install and shoot. Then decide if you want to install pillars and/or bed the action. For the .308 I'd probably bed at least the recoil lug area.

FWIW, there have been some of the Boyd's laminate stocks delaminate with use. Pillars and/or bedding will probably reduce the likelyhood of that happening.

[KMW1954]

I have been working with an older Model 10 Top Bolt Release, Blind Mag, Stagger Feed 223 and basically been using it only for paper punchin out to 300yds.
I wanted a more bench style grip for this and first came across a Boyds Thumbhole on their Rapid Fire page so I thought I would try it. Found I didn't like it, uncomfortable. Though after it arrived I mounted it up as-is to test fire it and it performed very well with no modifications. But again I didn't like it so I took it off.

I then soon found on Rapid Fire a Boyds Spike Camp. Right away it felt better but when I shot it it was all over the place. My groups went from 1.75" @ 200yds to over 10" just from changing the stock. I plan on keeping this one so I am now working on bedding it.

Before starting mods on this stock I asked a lot of questions on many different forums and of course got many different answers and opinions. Two I really trust from over at Shooters Forum informed me that with laminate stocks with short action light caliber rounds they do not bother with Pillars and after looking at Boyds site they only bed Front Pillars on Savage stocks. So I have forgone the pillars in this stock.

Maybe some day I too can afford a chassis stock. But for now I am a long way from needing one.

[Dave Hoback]

Yeah, the Boyd's stocks are laminated. Only way they can do what they for the price. But hardwood laminate is actually stronger, less prone to the environment than the solid counterparts. Sanding for the barrel inlet won't make it more prone. It's just the nature of wood in general. Delaminating can happen over time with the stress of use, again...over time. And yes, bedding makes it less prone. But this is not something happening on every stock.