Factory loaded .308 match ammo for long range

[jkv45]

I know members here are mostly interested in hand loading, but as a pretty new rifle shooter, I'm concentrating on my shooting technique before getting into reloading.

I recently attended a basic long (mid) range class, and shot out to 600 yards for the first time using my Savage Model 10 FCP HS Precision with Federal GMM 168gr. My rifle shot them at under 1 MOA at 100 yards, and they performed very well at 600 yards for me.

Looking past 600 yards, what have others found for factory .308 ammunition that will do well in the 800 to 1000 yard distance?

I'm planning on testing some Federal GMM 175gr, but was also considering some Lapua factory ammo. Would the 155gr Scenar-L or 175gr Scenar-L be a better choice? Are there others like Fiocchi or Hornady factory ammo that have performed well at those distances for you?

All of it is pretty pricey, but the difference between them isn't that significant.

I have a fair amount of FGMM 168, purchased very reasonably quite a while ago, that I'll be using for reloading brass eventually, and the Lapua brass seems to be high quality as well.

Thanks.

[CFJunkie]

I think I already mentioned this, but for hand loads.

Your new rifle will tell you what shoots best in its barrel.
168 gr GMM SMKs should perfrom great at 600 yards.

If you really want to reach out further than that, the 175 gr GMM SMKs should perform better ballistically, as long as your barrel likes the heavier weight.
Factory ammo muzzle velocities are high enough to keep the 175 grain bullets supersonic out to 1,000 yards.
The 175 Scenar ammo should also have the same ballistic advantage.

The 155 grain bullets are a bit light to maintain their velocity out that far but they also might shoot really well in your rifle.

I have two .308 Savages - one likes 155 grain bullets better than 175 grain bullets but shoots 168 grain bullets almost as well as the 155s.
The other shoots 175 and 195 grain bullets best. Same length 24 inch barrels. Your barrels will tell you the answer.

As for brass, I use Lapua brass for all my most accurate bolt action rifles.
My experience shows that Lapua brass will last a lot longer than Federal brass (up to 3 times the number of reloads if you are not loading near Pmax) - but it is more expensive to buy.
However, even with the added purchase price, Lapua brass is still cheaper overall when you factor in the additional reloads.

I'm not sure that you would see any difference in the accuracy using either brass in the first few reloads, assuming you learn how to reload for precision shooting.

[jkv45]

Thanks CF.

For starters, I think I'll compare 175gr Federal and Lapua to see what my barrel prefers. My rifle does seem to like 168 SMKs just fine. They went right where they should at 600 yards.

I did study your hand loading results for future reference, but it's a bit over my head at this point.

[Robinhood]

I second 175 FGMM

[jkv45]

I second 175 FGMM

Definitely will give it a shot.

Does anyone recall the regular price of FGMM 175gr, about 2 years ago, before all this !#$%^& started?

[NF1E]

I load most of my own but have found LC M118 LR puts most of the other commercial ammo to shame. 175 gn FGMM is usually available but at the bottom of my go to ammo list.

[charlie b]

My problem was it was difficult to find the military stuff. Never saw a price on the 175 FGMM ammo as it wasn't usually on the shelf around here. Should be close to the 168 FGMM.

I'd try the Hornady ELD stuff. I have not tried the ammo but their bullets do well in my handloads.

[Texas10]

If you put a tuner on your barrel, you can shoot just about any quality off the shelf ammo to equal precision with a simple twist of the tuner. A tuner allows you to tune the barrel to the load, whereas handloading is all about tuning the load to the barrel.

[Robinhood]

M118 Special Ball Long Range Mk316 Mod 0 is the FGGM 175smk.

LC Match case(designed by Federal), IMR 4064 41.7xx grains, FGMM 210M primer.

There were many iterations of the M118 with many powders and even a 173 closed tip bullet made by LC.

[jkv45]

If you put a tuner on your barrel, you can shoot just about any quality off the shelf ammo to equal precision with a simple twist of the tuner. A tuner allows you to tune the barrel to the load, whereas handloading is all about tuning the load to the barrel.

Unfortunately, the barrel isn't threaded.

[hamiltonkiler]

The 168gns smk is fine at 1000yds if the winds not blowing.

Yes the 175gn are better but less accurate at 100-600yds maybe and hold better at 600+ because they don’t get blown around the same.
A big arse piece of card board or ply wood will tell you all you need to know.

Hold in the same spot and group shoot both will tell the story.

Cheers.


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[NF1E]

M118 Special Ball Long Range Mk316 Mod 0 is the FGGM 175smk.

LC Match case(designed by Federal), IMR 4064 41.7xx grains, FGMM 210M primer.

There were many iterations of the M118 with many powders and even a 173 closed tip bullet made by LC.

I would recommend LC 15 M118 LR specifically over Fed 175 GMM. There is a significant difference. Check the runout on FGMM and you will see a huge difference compared to the M118. Difference of 1.25 moa compared to .75 for the M118, at least the few thousand I have run through my rifles over the recent years. Powder consistency is much better on the M118 too.

[jkv45]

I would recommend LC 15 M118 LR specifically over Fed 175 GMM. There is a significant difference. Check the runout on FGMM and you will see a huge difference compared to the M118. Difference of 1.25 moa compared to .75 for the M118, at least the few thousand I have run through my rifles over the recent years. Powder consistency is much better on the M118 too.

I'll give it a try, but as of now it's not available anywhere.

[jkv45]

The 168gns smk is fine at 1000yds if the winds not blowing.

Yes the 175gn are better but less accurate at 100-600yds maybe and hold better at 600+ because they don’t get blown around the same.
A big arse piece of card board or ply wood will tell you all you need to know.

Hold in the same spot and group shoot both will tell the story.

Cheers.

Doesn't FGMM 168 run out of gas by 800yds or so, due to its BC?

Can you get out past that with the 168 SMK and hand loads at higher velocity?

[hamiltonkiler]

Doesn't FGMM 168 run out of gas by 800yds or so, due to its BC?

Can you get out past that with the 168 SMK and hand loads at higher velocity?

Welp. Go shoot it at 1000 on paper and see.
It works down south in thick air at sea level. Going from sonic to trans is tough. Tough if the winds blowing. I’m not supposed to be able to shoot 77gn bullets from a 1-9 .223
But it works.
How often really will you shoot at 1k yds?
The .308 isn’t really the right tool.
Neither is my 22lr at 350 but it’s fun.


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[jkv45]

Welp. Go shoot it at 1000 on paper and see.
It works down south in thick air at sea level. Going from sonic to trans is tough. Tough if the winds blowing. I’m not supposed to be able to shoot 77gn bullets from a 1-9 .223
But it works.
How often really will you shoot at 1k yds?
The .308 isn’t really the right tool.
Neither is my 22lr at 350 but it’s fun.

Not very often most likely, and I haven't yet, but there is a 1200 yd range about 30 min from me.

I realize 1000+ is pushing it with the .308, and if I'm going to give it a try I'll do some research and testing to give myself the best chance of success possible.

If it's been proven over and over that the 168 doesn't do well out that far, and the 175 does better, I'm going to at least try the better option.

This is all for fun at this point, but I do like to hit what I'm aiming at.

[hamiltonkiler]

Anything at 1000 isn’t a cake walk.
TV and real life is different. MOA at 1000 is 10”.

That’s pretty good.
A 300 win mag is a better option.

The black hills 168gn smk load will get you there. They all get there. It’s being able to read the wind. Even a 6.5 creedmor is tough at 1000.

Again go shoot at a big piece of something and write down your DOPE.

Not sure where you live but here it gets mid 90s to 100s and low as 20s

Big difference on performance depending on the season.
1000yds is spray and pray work untill you get into some real big guns.


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[jkv45]

Realistically, if I could hit what I'm aiming at out to 800 yards with my set-up and factory ammo - I'd be happy.

1 MOA at 800 yards is 8", and I'd also be very happy with that, but I wouldn't expect that consistently from me or my equipment at this point.

I do appreciate the insight and opinions.

[charlie b]

I never shot the 168SMK's beyond 600yd. There used to be a 'known' issue with the 168SMK beyond 600 but I suspect Sierra has 'fixed' that issue.

FWIW, the 155 ELD match bullets I use do well at 1000yd. I don't shoot that far very often, but, I did have a 12" group with them at 1000yd. Velocity at muzzle is 2800fps, at 1000 it is supposed to be over 1500fps. The Palma shooters contributed a lot to long range, lighter bullets in the .308.

[yobuck]

Anything at 1000 isn’t a cake walk.
TV and real life is different. MOA at 1000 is 10”.

That’s pretty good.
A 300 win mag is a better option.

The black hills 168gn smk load will get you there. They all get there. It’s being able to read the wind. Even a 6.5 creedmor is tough at 1000.

Again go shoot at a big piece of something and write down your DOPE.

Not sure where you live but here it gets mid 90s to 100s and low as 20s

Big difference on performance depending on the season.
1000yds is spray and pray work untill you get into some real big guns.


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When it comes to ahem, (reading the wind) i never advanced beyond a first grade reader.
Most of my friends havent either.
And ive never been invited to watch those who claim otherwise shoot. lol
No doubt being familiar with the shooting location can have at least some positive affect however.
But i do agree with the getting them there quicker having advantages.

[wbm]

I would recommend LC 15 M118 LR specifically over Fed 175 GMM.

+1.

[mikebritton]

M118 is surplus Gov'ment target ammo.
You will be able to find it at some of the larger gunshows. I have a lot of it left over from when I was shooting NRA Hi-Power.
I haven't found a .308 barrel yet that didn't like it.
But I have to tell you, it will struggle at anything past 800 yds. You will need more bullet weight for that.

[yobuck]

M118 is surplus Gov'ment target ammo.
You will be able to find it at some of the larger gunshows. I have a lot of it left over from when I was shooting NRA Hi-Power.
I haven't found a .308 barrel yet that didn't like it.
But I have to tell you, it will struggle at anything past 800 yds. You will need more bullet weight for that.

You can also change the prop pitch on a 50 horse outboard.
But it’s still a 50 horse outboard.
Nothing takes the place of horsepower or powder.

[GaCop]

Welp. Go shoot it at 1000 on paper and see.
It works down south in thick air at sea level. Going from sonic to trans is tough. Tough if the winds blowing. I’m not supposed to be able to shoot 77gn bullets from a 1-9 .223
But it works.
How often really will you shoot at 1k yds?
The .308 isn’t really the right tool.
Neither is my 22lr at 350 but it’s fun.


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My 9 twist Savage 26" fluted barrel LOVES the 77 grain TMK over 24 grains of CFE223. I seat them .010" OTL, 2843 fps and at 200 yards 5 group into .618" on a 90 degree day with 95% humidity.

[charlie b]

M118 is surplus Gov'ment target ammo.
You will be able to find it at some of the larger gunshows. I have a lot of it left over from when I was shooting NRA Hi-Power.
I haven't found a .308 barrel yet that didn't like it.
But I have to tell you, it will struggle at anything past 800 yds. You will need more bullet weight for that.

I have fun shooting 155gn bullets at 1000yd. Hornady ELD match has shot several sub-MOA groups for me at that range, as well as the Bergers. Yes, I do have a 26" barrel :) Wind is the key. No wind and it is easy. Gusty and it is impossible, even with heavier bullets.

But, these were not factory loads. Velocity was a bit less.