Factory loaded .308 match ammo for long range

[jkv45]

No, im not being sarcastic, and im also not implying you drink Cool Aid.
You seem to think that (spin drift) caused your shots to land where they did on your target.
I stated that untill very recently i had never heard that term used, and asked that you explain it since you seem to know more about it than i do.
Possibly someone else here can answer that question then, because i would really like an answer to the question.
And an accurate answer as well, because i already have my own opinion on spin drift, and lots of other things talked about today as well.
There is another term you might hear used also, but not nearly as often.
And that would be the (coralis) affect on a bullet, assuming i spelled that correctly?
Anyway it would depend upon which side of the equator you live on as to how you would go about allowing for it.
And the easiest way to know is to watch which way the water swirls when you flush your toilet.
Very important to know when you decide to shoot your Winny at say 3500 yards.
Did somebody here just ask about where these sites are going?
Well this is where folks.

Yes I do.

You mentioned Bryan Litz. If you respect his ballistic research, this is what he has to say about spin drift -

"Gyroscopic (spin) Drift

Having a left or right twist will change the direction of gyroscopic drift. Bullets fired from right twist barrels drift to the right, and vise versa by the same amount, typically 8-9 inches at1000 yards for small arms trajectories"

Quoted from this page, which also includes information on what he refers to as "Coriolis Acceleration" - https://appliedballisticsllc.com/wp-...lis-Effect.pdf

Based on his information, and information I've gathered elsewhere, I do believe my shift was from spin drift. It makes sense to me.

Again - I don't understand what you mean by "Did somebody here just ask about where these sites are going? Well this is where folks."

I'm trying to learn, and be respectful here, but your comments sure make me wonder what your intent is.

[yobuck]

Yes I do.

You mentioned Bryan Litz. If you respect his ballistic research, this is what he has to say about spin drift -

"Gyroscopic (spin) Drift

Having a left or right twist will change the direction of gyroscopic drift. Bullets fired from right twist barrels drift to the right, and vise versa by the same amount, typically 8-9 inches at1000 yards for small arms trajectories"

Quoted from this page, which also includes information on what he refers to as "Coriolis Acceleration" - https://appliedballisticsllc.com/wp-...lis-Effect.pdf

Based on his information, and information I've gathered elsewhere, I do believe my shift was from spin drift. It makes sense to me.

Again - I don't understand what you mean by "Did somebody here just ask about where these sites are going? Well this is where folks."

I'm trying to learn, and be respectful here, but your comments sure make me wonder what your intent is.

Well my intent is to lend what experience i have doing this stuff for 50 years in the hope it might shorten the learning curve for others like you.
Brian Litz has a technical mind, and i have a practical mind. If technical is where you are, then by all means follow along with whatever Brian says.
50 years ago Brian was clueless as to any of this even going on.
But where im from, people were shooting guns like 6.5x300 Wetherbys, 30x378 Wetherbys and 7x300 Wetherbys.
Which was long before even Wetherby decided those cartridges were worth pursuing.
Brians employer, Berger, wasent even on the radar screen as for good long range hunting bullets at that time.
And that isnt meant in any way as to discredit Berger, just pointing out a few facts somehow lost today, thanks to people like Brian.
A few years back on another site, Brian was discussing first round hits at extended distances, which most would agree to be beyond 1500 yards.
Of coarse his awe struck viewers were asking the normal polite type questions.
Finally, i asked him what the odds were of making a first round hit at say 2000 yards using his criteria for doing it.
And his answer was, i quote, ( first round hits at 2000 yards can be expected).
Well guess what, so can snow in Jacksonville be expected, but be carefull where you put your thumb while your waiting for it.
So that sums up my opinion of experts like Brian when it comes right down to actually getting it done.
But hey, your not me, and you probably at this point dont even like me.
But you know what? if you keep doing this stuff, at some point you will be thinking a bit differently about it all.
My advise is very simple, you want to do this?
Just go shoot, and the more the better.
Because the experts in the end are really only about selling their books.

[Dave Hoback]

Actually, the whole water swirl direction in the toilet based on hemisphere & location is bunk! There are too many outside factors for it to be reliable. Must be done on a completely still standing body of water, with a drain outside the water as not to cause a differing factor. That’s how little effect the Coriolis effect has on toilets. And I believe the Coriolis has even LESS effect on a bullet!

[charlie b]

So, next time make the adjustment ahead of time and see if it works for you.

Most of the time when shooting at range I have enough trouble getting the wind adjustment right :)

[hamiltonkiler]

So, next time make the adjustment ahead of time and see if it works for you.

Most of the time when shooting at range I have enough trouble getting the wind adjustment right :)

Reach out to a scout sniper. A good one.
They see a pile of bullets go down range.
Like I have mentioned before. 1000yds is no cake walk.
I have dope on my gun to 750yds.
Past that I’m not good enough to be predictable and not really that good at 600yds.
I’m shooting a small caliber.
Always take notes of what happened. Apply it to the next range session. If it happens the same and write that down. Gathering Data on Personal equipment is very very important for your gun and you.
My SEAL buddy talks spin drift. You can see it in a shooting scope. He talks specifically in the desert. He explains why the military has an effective range on cartridge. Not necessarily a lethal range but how far is the round predictable or gun.
Here is an example. 300wm gas gun with 20” barrel he claims is predictable to around 750yds his bolt gun with a 28” barrel is close to 1300yds.
Spin drift or not and maybe going from sonic to transonic plays a role he says.
He defiantly claims spin drift is real and moves the bullet to the right and up in his case like yours. But he has notes and it’s programmed into a high end kestrel device.
He likes to say. It’s not the first shot that kills you. “But if I can see where the first on lands or my spotter, bet your ass dead on the second one”. I like this statement. Even the best In the world need a sighter.

Cheers




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[yobuck]

Actually, the whole water swirl direction in the toilet based on hemisphere & location is bunk! There are too many outside factors for it to be reliable. Must be done on a completely still standing body of water, with a drain outside the water as not to cause a differing factor. That’s how little effect the Coriolis effect has on toilets. And I believe the Coriolis has even LESS effect on a bullet!

Well im sure glad you chimed in on that Dave, i have been really concerned over it since i first heard about it.lol
Fact is that if you go to places where there are shooters, who know something about shooting, you never hear a word mentioned about any of that crap.
As for the rifle twist affecting where the bullet lands, i suppose someone like Brian would need to tell us what it might be based on the actual twist rate of the barrel? I mean could a 12 be the same as say a 7?
And how come on some days we need absolutely zero correction at extreme distances of say 1500 yds, and on other days we might need several feet with the same gun?
And by the way, we can shoot a mile from our yards easily, and we do after the leaves come down, but not with 308s or Winnys either.
You will know nothing solid as for information till you actually send one over there, in other words an old fashioned sighter shot.

[jkv45]

I'm just looking for answers, anywhere I can find them - that's all.

I'm a practical person, and know there are people that can answer technical questions I can't.

I don't want to go back to the range and have the same problems I did last time. I strive to do a little better each time out.