Rifleman, what are you talking about? No one said anything against Kroil?? Several other people simply gave their own usage. It’s ok people use different products. That’s not an attack on your own. Take it easy man.. you’re fine here.Originally Posted by Rifleman#1
OK so another thread that made me do research. ROFLMAO
Had to look at the Kroil SDS to see what chemicals in it were copper solvents. A combination of alcohols and ketone with some petroleum type stuff. I don't see how any of these would react with copper. But, there is a proprietary chemical that may be the key. Since it turns the copper blue it will be an ammonia or lye type of chemical.
I thought ammonia or lye based copper solvents were hazardous enough. Then I looked up the SDS of the KG-12 non-ammonia copper solvent. Cyanide. Pro-shot and Boretech use ethylene glycol monobutyl ether. Wipeout is a concoction of some pretty bad stuff as well, Toulene and heptane along with Stoddard and naptha.
I could go on with warnings, but, in my youth (and less frequently later in life) I always used a lot of solvents when cleaning car parts and such. Never used gloves. Never really used respirators either, used the solvents inside garages and such too. Am still here and kidneys/liver doing fine. :)
But, I think from now on I will use an exhaust fan and gloves. :)
Thanks for prompting my research!
Wipeout: While picking the penny out there was blue coloring all around the subject. In less than 10 minutes the tarnished penny was clean not bright like a new penny but like a chemical clean.
Kroil: No change. No green or blue coloring in the liquid.
More to come.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I woke to find
WipeOut: Liquid is a very dark blue. No transparency. The penny appears to be loosing copper from the surface. Subjective. I weighed it at 3.1 g so we will see tonight.
Kroil: From my perspective I believe the tarnish has diminished considerably. Copper has not been impacted by the Kroil. No discoloration noticed in the liquid.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
So it would appear that Wipeout and no doubt others have an affect on copper.
But wouldnt the affect on steel barrels be the only real concern?
Ive always run dry patches thru after cleaning regardless of the bore cleaner i used.
Then a patch with kroil which is left in the barrel and a coating on other surfaces as well.
The only problem ive had is with a Jewell trigger being contaminated by the oil.
Storing the gun laying down instead of upright in a safe would probably solve that.
None of the other triggers have been affected.
Prior to using Wipeout, i was using BoreTec Eliminator for copper, and Slick 2000 for carbon.
It was reccomended by the old Precision Shooting magazine after a 2 year study of all then made cleaning products.
I still feel that was a good combination, but i was shown that a patch run thru after cleaning produced lots of blue when using Wipeout.
There is a concern about leaving some of these products in a barrel overnight.
Eric Cortina and others use CLR for powder fouling on stainless barrels. I tried it and it does work. He also said he filled a bore and let it soak overnight. I probably would not do that due to the caustic agents. Stainless is good stuff but I don't think I'd push my luck with that. I also would not use it on a CM barrel due to the caustic nature. And it will quickly remove bluing.
Ammonia is another one that really should not be left in a CM barrel for hours on end. Stainless might be ok. This is one of the reasons I went to the non-ammonia copper removers. Wipe, let sit for 30seconds, check barrel for copper, repeat. Usually takes less than 15 min to get a fouled barrel cleaned of copper.
I will have to try Wipeout as it does not seem to contain any caustics or acids. Don't see how it dissolves chemically reacts with copper, but, since it seems to will try it.
FWIW, KG-12 does not turn blue when it dissolves copper. Different reaction. To test the Kroil I'd find a copper fouled barrel and apply it. Watch to see of the copper goes away.
I just recently tried Kroil to see what it would do for my '91 Argentine Mauser's barrel. My go to cleaners are Bore Tech Cu+2 and C4 and didn't seem strong enough to get through 128yrs of fouling.
So I bought some Kroil and ran wet patches through until they were basically clean, then 4 wet patches, and let sit for 24hrs. Repeated this process 3 times. When I ran a dry patch through after 24hrs, the patch was BLACK, second was black, third was a light gray/black, 4th had some light gray/black streaking. After 3 round, first patch was black, second light gray/black streaking, third basically clean. I patched it dry and ran my Teslong down the bore. No carbon at all, clean to the steel, with copper shining right back at me.
I ran 3 or 4 patches wet with Cu+2 down the bore, let sit the requisite 15mins. The first patch down the bore afterward came out the darkest blue I've ever seen from a rifle barrel. I repeated the Cu+2 process once more, dry patched, then borescoped, no copper at all just clean old steel.
While the Kroil didn't remove copper fouling, it did loosen it, and I'll have a can of Kroil on my bench from now on.
Sorry Rifleman. I have not been following this thread closely. I certainly was not making fun and I have been known to use Kroil in the bore of a CS barrel for storage. So, I have a clear epoxy mixing cup, a 1961 penny and Kroil. Tomorrow evening we will get results. If none, we can wait a few days.
The truth is, some things you are not sure of will surprise you. Some people are full of it. You never know. This one I didn't know and chemicals can do some interesting things when talking materials. An unknown PH can play tricks on you. Wish me luck.
EDIT: I also put Wipe Out in another container with a penny. I may not post photo's but I will post results
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
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