Seating dies, competition dies ,custom

[lonestardiver]

If the seater makes use of the same diameter as the comparator (the ogive) then it should seat all bullets so that the ogive is the same distance from the lands regardless of the bullet length. On seaters where it pushes the tip of the bullet or has a conical opening to prevent tip deformation, then it will vary more from bullet to bullet type due to length. ELD bullets seems to have more length between tip and ogive as opposed to a standard hollow point, soft point, round nose, flat tip, etc.

Either way, I believe that if you change bullet type/weight you need to adjust your seating die unless you have one set up for each type.

[charlie b]

This is one reason why I do not like things like the Hornady gage system. Every bullet ogive is slightly different shape. To really find out where to seat a bullet you need to insert the bullet to touch the lands and then measure the OAL of the cartridge. Then adjust your seating die to whatever 'jump' you want, measuring the OAL of the cartridge. Many people use .020" as a 'safe' number. And, yes, the bullet seating die needs to be adjusted for each bullet as well. A Match King has a different setting than an Amax or ELD bullet.

If you settle on one bullet for your rifle you can have the seating stem made for those bullets. This should give the best results for concentric seating of bullets although many just use the standard stem with decent results. FYI, you will need to readjust your seating die if you change stems.

[69gen1]

Well,thanks to you all I got a clearer picture of what to expect.it sometimes just sets the bullit a little deeper in the case after I done set the depth useing the hornady comparitor and even after sorting the bullits that vary a little from base to ogive. never longer just shorter with numbers of like .003 deeper in case is the most I have seen. so I just assumed by some of the bullits being a little longer than others that the seater was hitting farther up on those bullits even though it might be the same size at that point on the bullit as the others resulting in it setting it deeper in the case.jopefully I am explaining this right.I did get a email back from lee and they stated all there seating stems work off the ogive and that they do make custom stems if u send them a sample of the bullit you are useing ..the cost is 8.00 + shipping which is deffinently cheap enough down side is there lead time is 4 weeks or could be sooner.all in all this hobby is a joy and a great learning experence.thanks again

[PhilC]

where a bullet hits the seating stem and where the measuring tool hits is often not the same place.
that does not create a variation, you just need to understand that ogive is not an exact location.

^^^^

If you know for certain the bullet tip is not bottoming out in your existing seater die, press on with what you've got. I wouldn't bother having a custom seating die made for that specific bullet unless you've got thousands from the same lot. Highly likely the next lot will be different for the very reason mikeinco stated above.

[Texas10]

You can drill into the seater to relieve it a bit if you're switching to a more tapered bullet and you find that he meplat (tip) is touching. Otherwise, I'd recommend you buy another seating stem for your die, if available, and when switching to new bullet, pull the stem and check the fit to the ogive. Select the best fitting stem and you'll have greater success in seating bullets.

Keep in mind that neck tension and neck friction play a bit role in seat depth consistency. If the stem you're using is a good fit and you're still seeing inconsistency, you may need to look elsewhere for the issue.

[mikeinco]

charlie you are wrong or you said something wrong.
i think this is what you SAID wrong

"measuring the OAL of the cartridge."...NOT OAL but base to ogive YES ???

NOT adjusting for each bullet, but each BULLET TYPE...yes ??

imho QUIT with the " Many people use .020" as a 'safe' number." it is your opinion, not a rule.

This is one reason why I do not like things like the Hornady gage system. Every bullet ogive is slightly different shape. To really find out where to seat a bullet you need to insert the bullet to touch the lands and then measure the OAL of the cartridge. Then adjust your seating die to whatever 'jump' you want, measuring the OAL of the cartridge. Many people use .020" as a 'safe' number. And, yes, the bullet seating die needs to be adjusted for each bullet as well. A Match King has a different setting than an Amax or ELD bullet.

If you settle on one bullet for your rifle you can have the seating stem made for those bullets. This should give the best results for concentric seating of bullets although many just use the standard stem with decent results. FYI, you will need to readjust your seating die if you change stems.

[mikeinco]

69gen,
sort out 5 bullets with the same ogive length.
prep 5 cases and seat the bullets.

if the cartridge base to ogive length is not the same
there is something wrong with your PROCESS

[69gen1]

69gen,
sort out 5 bullets with the same ogive length.
prep 5 cases and seat the bullets.

if the cartridge base to ogive length is not the same
there is something wrong with your PROCESS

Thanks, thats actually what I did and took seater apart and cleaned it reset it loaded 10 after measureing base to ogive know probs so far think I might of had a weak battery in the electronic caliper that could have been acting up . so changed it and also used a dial caliper to verify..thanks again everyone.so cleaning die and resetting replacing battery in the caliper and double check with the dial caliper one of those looks to have cured it..

[charlie b]

Mike,

Thanks. Except I do measure OAL, not to ogive. I find with most bullets I use the measurements give the same basic results since the bullet tip to ogive is the same. Maybe if you get into the .001" tolerances there is some difference, but, I have not felt the need to go there, nor do most reloaders.

Yes, except for those in the extreme portions of shooting (like precision long range and bench rest) that .020 off the lands is a safe number. Too many inexperienced reloaders will try to emulate someone who loads closer to the lands without really knowing how to do it.

Keep in mind when I say 'most' people I mean the total number of reloaders, not 'most' precision long range or bench rest shooters. If someone is in here asking questions I classify them in the former group, not the latter, unless they present information that proves otherwise.

[mikeinco]

i do not know what bullets you use, but it is well known that production bullets VARY in tip length, easily to .015" or more.
i cannot reccommend your methods to anyone.
i had a lot of sierra 52 hp's that were 2 separate lots from two runs. completely DIFFERENT oals.
sierra admitted their error and said they no longer mix bullet RUN lots IN ONE BOX
it is the very reason we DO NOT seat from the tip of a rifle bullet.
your method is NOT COMMON USEAGE in any precision rifle loading

Mike,

Thanks. Except I do measure OAL, not to ogive. I find with most bullets I use the measurements give the same basic results since the bullet tip to ogive is the same. Maybe if you get into the .001" tolerances there is some difference, but, I have not felt the need to go there, nor do most reloaders.

Yes, except for those in the extreme portions of shooting (like precision long range and bench rest) that .020 off the lands is a safe number. Too many inexperienced reloaders will try to emulate someone who loads closer to the lands without really knowing how to do it.

Keep in mind when I say 'most' people I mean the total number of reloaders, not 'most' precision long range or bench rest shooters. If someone is in here asking questions I classify them in the former group, not the latter, unless they present information that proves otherwise.

[sharpshooter]

69gen,
sort out 5 bullets with the same ogive length.
prep 5 cases and seat the bullets.

if the cartridge base to ogive length is not the same
there is something wrong with your PROCESS

There's nothing wrong with the process, the problem is in the bullets. The discrepancy in length is from the ogive to the diameter of where the bullet seater stem contacts. I run into the same problem with Berger 105 VLD's. Measure from base to ogive, and they're less than .001".....but when you measure from base to where the seater stem contacts, the length varied up to .010".
It was easy to check, it just so happened that a .20 cal comparator landed in the same spot as the seater stem.
After a lot of frustration and 3 different seater dies later, I tried some Bart's 105 RBT and they all seated the same ogive length, which told me that is was in the BULLETS.

[69gen1]

There's nothing wrong with the process, the problem is in the bullets. The discrepancy in length is from the ogive to the diameter of where the bullet seater stem contacts. I run into the same problem with Berger 105 VLD's. Measure from base to ogive, and they're less than .001".....but when you measure from base to where the seater stem contacts, the length varied up to .010".
It was easy to check, it just so happened that a .20 cal comparator landed in the same spot as the seater stem.
After a lot of frustration and 3 different seater dies later, I tried some Bart's 105 RBT and they all seated the same ogive length, which told me that is was in the BULLETS.

That was my initial assumption to sharpshooter was hard to explain so are u suggesting a custom seater so they hit
at the same spot if that's it , wouldn't you need that for every different lot of the same bullit .. barts are way out of my needs but I have read some of the reviews.when I done last setup i measured from base to ogive and i also measured base to tip within. 001 and they came out great . My seater stem is hollowed out and is not touching the tip anytime in the process . but probably is hitting a different spot
below the tip that is little longer than the initial bullit I used in setup. More than likely even if i sorted base to ogive and not pay any attention to the oal they would be off..

[sharpshooter]

My initial idea was to modify a seater stem to contact the bullet closer to the ogive, but it is easier said than done. To get the seater to contact closer to the ogive, it has to have a knife edge, not only leaving it weak and fragile, but also it causing a wedging effect, making it expand when seating a bullet. I finally came to the conclusion that the seater stem had to contact farther up the bullet for strength to keep it from wedging. The solution I came up with is to measure the bullets from base to the seater stem datum, and sort them accordingly. Once they were sorted by that length, I would start with the shortest ones and adjust the die for those, and then progress to the longer ones and adjust the die until all were the same ogive length.

[Stumpkiller]

This is one reason why I do not like things like the Hornady gage system. Every bullet ogive is slightly different shape. To really find out where to seat a bullet you need to insert the bullet to touch the lands and then measure the OAL of the cartridge. Then adjust your seating die to whatever 'jump' you want, measuring the OAL of the cartridge.

You just described how the Hornady Lock-n-Load OAL Gauge works (formerly the Stoney Point OAL Gauge). You can even send them one of your fired cases or tap it yourself for precise results. They do know what they're doing at Hornady. ;-)

Once you get the OAL length figured out the other products let you tweak and repeat when switching dies or different bullet makes/weights.

[mikeinco]

just to be clear, the entire reason the stonypoint/hornady/sinclair tools are on the market, is because it is well known
that bullets vary a lot in over all length, and that sorting/measuring by ogive length is much more precise and repeatable.
"oal" ( over all length) is seldom used in precision ammo,unless magazine length is an issue.
base to ogive is used in precision ammo.