lets start with a very basic statement.
there are RELOADERS
and then there are AMMO CRAFTERS.
I have seen people here and else where crying that all the small steps some of us take
are just wasted, of no real benefit.
today while testing some ammo for a rifle, a bunch of those little steps paid off.
shooting three shot groups at 200 yards the chronograph read:
shot 1 2631
shot 2 2631
shot 3 2631
ave 2631
es zero
sd zero
i'd like to say there was only one hole but that would not be true.
It's almost like ES and SD are worthless at short range.Originally Posted by mikeinco
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I would like to have a sample of 5.
If you loaded up more how did they fair?
and I agree, how could precision loading be a negative or " waste"
I have been tring to go that way with my limited set of tools and was all smiles when I had a SD of 7.
Good reloading.
That's is quite an accomplishment!
I'm not sure you'll see that often given the possible variables due to powder burn, primers, etc. but it is certainly a rarity.
It's nice to know it is possible. I've never had it happen.
IT IS the first zero ES/SD i have ever shot.
i have actually shot 1's before.
and in the math world, essentially all shooting samples are too small for "statistical" es/sd.
the math is based on LARGE sample sets..like a 1000 or more.
but we still use the output tho it is barely "DATA' with our small sample sizes.
i shoot a ladder , 10 or so 1/100 of case vol steps , singles in steps. as in a ladder
pick several data points and shoot 3 shot groups .
from the 3 shot group data i shoot one or 2 five shot groups,
and then pick the best and play with seating depth.
range is aprox 100 miles one way took three rifles
I would like to have a sample of 5.
If you loaded up more how did they fair?
and I agree, how could precision loading be a negative or " waste"
I have been tring to go that way with my limited set of tools and was all smiles when I had a SD of 7.
Good reloading.
I tune my loads to my gun. And I load on a RCBS Rockchucker and a 505 Scale and I load one at a time.
I shoot 5 shot groups and I single load.
2 or 3 shot groups don't prove anything except that you're getting close.
A "5 shot group" that can be covered with a dime () is what I strive for.
ES?
SD?
My Chronograph hasn't been out of it's box in over 10 + years.
Never was concerned about FPS. Never seen anything out run one of my bullets.
If I can't hit what I'am aiming at, I've got problems and need to start over.
My targets don't know how fast the bullet is going when it gets hit.
As long as all my shots are going in the same hole, I'am happy.
Good thing we all don't think the same. Sure would be a boring world.
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
and i still tend to ignore your posts. reloader vs ammocrafter.
how are your 2000 yard groups ?
1000 yard groups ?
600 yard national titles ??
you are entitled to do as you please,
it does not work for me.
I tune my loads to my gun. And I load on a RCBS Rockchucker and a 505 Scale and I load one at a time.
I shoot 5 shot groups and I single load.
2 or 3 shot groups don't prove anything except that you're getting close.
A "5 shot group" that can be covered with a dime (
ES?
SD?
My Chronograph hasn't been out of it's box in over 10 + years.
Never was concerned about FPS. Never seen anything out run one of my bullets.
If I can't hit what I'am aiming at, I've got problems and need to start over.
My targets don't know how fast the bullet is going when it gets hit.
As long as all my shots are going in the same hole, I'am happy.
Good thing we all don't think the same. Sure would be a boring world.
DD,
when i narrow down the load ii will shoot 5's.
there is a reason to not shoot fives early in load development.
if your goal is 1/2 moa, and you loaded up
5 loads in your choice of increments and you shoot
three shots of load one and the group is clearly an inch or more,
let me ask you a question:
how much SMALLER will the group get with shots 4 and 5 ?
ANSWER it cannot get smaller.
if 1/2" is your goal and you are at 1" with 3 shots, shooting the last 2 is:
a waste of time
a waste of components
a waste of money.
in the early steps of load development there is a clear reason to
shoot 3's and not 5's.
all loads i shot that day were single didget es's.
I would like to have a sample of 5.
If you loaded up more how did they fair?
and I agree, how could precision loading be a negative or " waste"
I have been tring to go that way with my limited set of tools and was all smiles when I had a SD of 7.
Good reloading.
I can see your logic.
for the record yobuck and yorketrans were the two that said
i cannot compete at 2000 yard group and score win a 300 win mag.
i won the 2000 yard group/score nationals this year a 300 win mag.
they are not exactly experts at the long range game
so we have some bullies here. some all hat and no cattle. some with no character, that like to pile on when others attack.
the difference, is i actually do what i say, in spite of comments by children on the forum.
I am impressed you drive 200mi just to shoot.
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charlie,
i live in the phoenix area. in the summer it is always over 90..more like over 100.
where i compete it is typically 75-90, so i need to test in the temp band.
if i drive 100 miles northeast i am in the low mountains and seldom see 90,, typically 70-85.
$50 to join the club, 7/24 access. limited to 300 yards, but the elevation and temp both work for me.
i go out early, set up, shoot, pack up and home by 1030/1100.
i drive well over 1000 for the matches..one way.
QUOTE=charlie b;458856]I am impressed you drive 200mi just to shoot.
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