Reply With QuoteI just went out to the bench and looked at some of my brass and I can't see any noticable ring or indention.
Describe how you are adjusting your die.
I don't know if I've started paying more attention to my brass or if my collet die has changed. I'm sizing .223 brass, where the neck meets the shoulder I'm seeing a ring indention. Is this something the collet die leaves on the neck or not ? I've noticed on the older brass that has been fired several time's the indention is more evident and deeper into the neck. Like I've said I don't know if I'm looking and paying more attention to the brass or not. Just wondering if this is normal, seems everthing happen's on a weekend when the manufacturer's are closed.
I just went out to the bench and looked at some of my brass and I can't see any noticable ring or indention.
Describe how you are adjusting your die.
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day- Harry Truman
I've tried adjusting in and out but can't get the indention out. Just got done watching the Nationwide race, now I'm going to try adjusting the cap out and see if that takes it out. I'm thinking I may have worn the die out maybe, sized some 2000 rnds with it.
Does it cam over (make the clunk clunk sound when you hit the bottom of the stroke) when you size your brass.
I wouldn't think that 2000 rds would wear one out.
Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day- Harry Truman
When I set my Lee collet di up I did this. I set it up so the press arm bottoms out as you just get enough of a squeeze on the neck. No need to go overboard with the pressure and really squeeze the case neck when all you need is enough to securely hold the bullet. When I first set mine up I thought the more the better but realized I was doing was over squeezing the brass so I stopped.
I have read of people having a ring show up from using a collet die. I suspect from over squeezing the neck of the case. I haven't seen it persoanlly but then again I only use just enough force to hold the bullet in the case and no more.
As I said my press bottoms out with just enough pressure applied to the neck to hold the bullet securely.
What kind of pres do you have?
Is it possible for your press to bottom out without a die in it?
If so then you can set the collet die to apply just enough pressure.
If you want PM me your number and I'll give you a call to see if we can sort it out. Or I can give you my number and you can call me.
Dolomite
I'm using the Lee Breech Lock press. I don't mean to write like a smart a$$ but I understand how to adjust the die. It seems like over-night the edges of the collet have become sharp like a knife. The indention the die leaves is knife like. I may be able to post a pic, I don't know if it will show or not. I've already ordered a new die but would like to figure out what happened to this one.
I don't take it as being a smart ass. I was just offering my way of doing things. It would be interesting to see what is going on because I have definitely sized well over 2K pieces by now with my collet die and I don't see any issues with mine. I just checked my last batch and see nothing out of the ordinary on mine. Maybe it was a defect from the factory that caused it to fail quicker than normal or something, hard to say.
Glad you are getting it sorted out and if it is within 2 years since new Lee will eplace it for free. SOmetimes they want the old one back and sometimes they don't. Might be worth giving them a call to see, that way you havea spare if it happens again. Lee has replaced diferent stuff for me and customer service has been great.
Dolomite
I will deffinately give Lee a call Monday, oop's holiday, or Tues. and see what there tech says. I have always had good CS from them, they have always sent replacement parts before I've shipped the defects back and some I don't send back.
The Lee collet die is a little "rough" from the factory and the slots in the collet can be cleaned up and the die lubed with graphite or some other type of dry lube. If the collet die is not set up correctly or if it binds or hangs up internally it can cause problems.
For uniformity and accuracy I still prefer a standard neck sizing die because the crimping action accuracy of the collet and mandrill is governed by your arm. (I don't have a torque adjustment knob on my elbow)
[img width=600 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7093.jpg[/img]
Inside of the collet bottom, where the red arrows are pointing, I found some burrs. This is what was causing the cuts in the neck. I don't have any polishing tools so I took emory cloth wrapped around a tapered punch and so-called polished the inside of the collet. So far it seems to have taken care of the problem. I talked to Lee and they said they would gladly send another die if I sent the old one back, but I didn't want to be without a die for that long. In the future I will have some polishing tools. biged, you post some exellent pic's by the way.
I am not sure what press you have but I set my "squeeze" based on when the press hits the top stop. My press has a positive stop at the top even without a die in it. It is this positive stop that allows me to dial in the right amount of "squeeze". If I want more "squeeze" I screw the die in a little more or if I want less I screw the die out.Originally Posted by bigedp51
Not sure if I made sense but it works well for me. I can apply the right amount of pressure so the case holds the bullet securely without over working the brass and it seems pretty consistent for my needs.
Dolomite
Been using a Lee collett die for 222 and 223 for around 1500 rounds to date.
When new I smeared EP moly grease on the collett (where red arrows are) to provide easy sliding between collet ears and bushing.
Tried different settings for the die in the press and prefer to have the die down far enough to prevent the last few millimeters of ram stroke. This way there is no danger of putting extreme pressure on the collett by accident. This also gives great feel to the process. I can feel the neck squish up to the stem with little pressure on the lever. Once the neck is closed against the stem there is no point in pressing harder, the neck will not come out tighter. Some cases have over 15 sizings and I have never had a problem. I am amazed at how little pressure it takes for this die to work but that might be different for larger calibres.
prefer to have the die down far enough to prevent the last few millimeters of ram stroke. I think more hand loaders should try this setting on the collet die, it work's great.
Used a collet die years. I use a Dillon 550 and I screw the die in until the press has just a smidgeon of resistance as it cams over. Yes, I run a full stroke on my collet die but if you adjust it right to where its barely squeezing the brass it works great. This way the pressure is always consistent.
Different presses might have different characteristics but most toggle style presses create extreme pressure at the toggle over point. At this point the mechanical advantage of the lever system becomes infinite. This may be necessary for full length sizing of large calibers where you are squishing the whole case sometimes by .012''. Collett dies don't need anywhere near as much pressure and are more fragile with their moving parts than regular sizing dies. Using the maximum pressure setting works as you said but it is much harder on the die. That your die has stood up this long is a testament to the quality of the die. I would add that it is not necessarily a more uniform way of sizing than 'by feel'. There is a very obvious 'stop' in the press lever when the collett has closed the neck against the stem. It is not hard to feel at all. Its like pushing a thumbtack into wood, once the head of the tack is against the wood, pushing ten times harder on it won't make a difference.
That's why the collet dies have the aluminum cap, to take the damage and avoid permanent damage to the die from people apply tons of force on the press handle... don't ask me how I know ;D As others have said, you don't need that much pressure, once the neck is squeezed against the mandrel it can't be resized any more no matter how much force you apply. Extra force will only go towards popping that cap. I'm a big fan of these dies.
And if you look at your necks after using the Lee Collet die you will have longitudinal lines up and down the neck from the slots in the collet leaving this area of the neck untouched. A standard neck sizing die leaves the neck more uniform, push come to shove I would rather use a simple Lee Loader than create these sectional crimps on the neck.
If this die was so great then why don't you see bench rest shooters using these cheaply made dies.
I've had good results (low neck runout) and I don't get any marks left on the case necks when I size my brass.
Vietnam Vet, Jun 66 - Dec 67
Big Ed, I've picked up some great info from you. And it's well appreciated! But, I'll have to differ with you on this one. The 25# press handle pressure that Lee recommends just isn't right, period. I use the Lee collet to set neck tension (among other things) when tweaking loads for optimum performance. Start w/ a fired case. Measure nk. dia. then measure nk. diameter on the same type case w/ bullet seated. Determine how much "squeeze" you'd like on the fired case neck. Run the collet die into press until bottom of collet touches shell holder. Insert case, activate arm 'til it just bumps the "stop", check nk. dia. Continue making small adjustments until you reach desired amount of "squeeze". I try for .002" smaller than bullet seated dia. or .002" squeeze. re- insert case into die and tighten lock ring. You're good to go! On my dies I can get from .001" to .003" squeeze without having to "polish" the mandrel. ------ Once fired brass will exhibit perfect outside neck dia. New brass, not quite so perfect. Just activate the press arm 'til it "bumps" the stop!!!! With this method you are allowing the collet to determine neck dia. NOT the mandrel!!! No need to have a bionic arm! Using this method the brass will tell you when it needs annealing also. Hope this works for you ;D PM me if you'd like. Dale
This is what I was trying to say in my previous post but I could not explain it as well.
Dolomite
[quote=bigedp51 ]
And if you look at your necks after using the Lee Collet die you will have longitudinal lines up and down the neck from the slots in the collet leaving this area of the neck untouched. A standard neck sizing die leaves the neck more uniform, push come to shove I would rather use a simple Lee Loader than create these sectional crimps on the neck.
If this die was so great then why don't you see bench rest shooters using these cheaply made dies.
As a matter of fact some bench rest shooters do use collett dies. Investigation showed that ribs on the neck give some of the same benefits of alignment with the bore as do tight chambers with turned necks but without the worry of keeping such tight tolerances. Lee collett dies may be inexpensive but they are not cheap. There is absolutely no evidence that standard neck sizing dies as a class automatically provide more uniform necks than the Lee collett die. Not to say that all standard standard dies are created equal by any means.
My only collet die is for the .303 British, I have Winchester, Remington, Prvi Partizan and Greek HXP .303 cases I reload for. Why would I want four different case set ups when a standard RCBS neck die requires no adjustments and no tinkering around.
I see nothing wrong with my .303 hand loads.
[img width=487 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/range-day-2-1.jpg[/img]
Now do a search at 6mmbr.com below and see how many bench rest shooters use a Lee Collet die when loading for accuracy
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html
The .303 cases below have been neck turned and sized in a neck sizing die with the decapping rod and ball expander removed. We are not even talking apples and oranges when it comes to neck run out and bullet neck tension when comparing this to a "collet" die.
[img width=600 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7127.jpg[/img]
And if you look at your necks after using the Lee Collet die you will have longitudinal lines up and down the neck from the slots in the collet leaving this area of the neck untouched. bigedp51, The point I'm making is that you won't have indentations on the neck If you try my suggestion. You can even remove the decapping stem/mandrel from the the Lee die and size the necks if you like. You also get the benefit of "adjustable" neck tension within the .001" to .003" range I mentioned without having to upgrade to a$140.00 Redding interchangeable collet neck die. If you are turning necks you'll have a thinner neck wall and even more flexability in neck tension settings. Your case neck will be smooth and uniform in dia.(once fired brass). I'm not really overly concerned with what bench resters do. If I hung a pink coon tail from my trigger guard and won a bench rest match. Half the shooters would have a pink coon tail on their trigger guard at the next match. ;D Been there, done that! Yes, the Lee die is inexpensive but, used and adjusted properly it is a rather ingenious tool! Try my suggestion--------------You'll like it!
gotcha
The Lee Collet die is a cheep roughly made resizing die and mine is back in my storage area gathering dust as it was before this posting. A standard RCBS die will straighten new brass better before fire forming and align the cases better. If you like the collet die fine, in my opinion it was a waste of money, I even ordered a new mandrel and collet thinking these parts were defective. As I stated I'm not in the least impressed with the Lee collet die or its roughly made parts.
Again gotcha, sorry but to each his own and thanks for your input.
You know what they say about opinions. ::) And yes to each his own.
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