Reply With QuoteHeavier bullets will cause more recoil. But if you load, you can use lighter bullets while their young in the 7/08.
As they get older, they can also use heavier ones and have a good all round PA deer and bear rifle.
I'm getting ready to buy my Grandkids a starter whitetail deer hunting rifle and I would like comments on which caliber to get. I have 5 Grandkids and I'm pretty sure at least 3 and maybe 4 of them will want to hunt deer, two girls and two boys. Because PA has a youth mentor season I want to get something that's not going to kick the snot out a 8 or 9 year old kid. I've never been a big fan of the 243 but it is on my list as well as the 6.5 creed and the 7-08.Any others?
Heavier bullets will cause more recoil. But if you load, you can use lighter bullets while their young in the 7/08.
As they get older, they can also use heavier ones and have a good all round PA deer and bear rifle.
If the 22-250 is legal in your state you might think on that one.
Yes it's legal here. My daughter carried my 22-250 the one year she hunted deer. I let her use it because she was right with me, she listened to me and she was a very good shot. The grandkids may be with their Dad and not me and I'm not too sure they would get the same conservative shooting advice with him as they would with me if you know what I mean...lolOriginally Posted by twarren
Just from my experience there aint a hill of beans worth of difference between the 7-08 and a .308. Recoil or otherwise.
I have found the perfect answer to your question the be H4895 which can be safely loaded down to 60% of max. Coupled with a good lightweight bullet and you're ready to go.
Took my 9 year old nephew to the range a couple of weeks ago and he fired 30 rounds of downloaded .308 without as much as a flinch and would have kept shooting if the range hadn't closed. 38Gr of H4895 and a 130gr TTSX in .308 was the load and recoils less than a .243. ( http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...nd-9-YO-nephew)
Also If you don't handload then Remington offers "Managed Recoil" ammunition. The managed recoil ammo in 30-06, 270 and .308 all recoils less than a .243 according to their information.
Here's a link ( https://www.remington.com/ammunition...managed-recoil )
Not sure I'm on board with not checking zero though. I've found it best to always zero with the ammo you'll be hunting with.
In my "been through that with 2 sons, 4 grand kids more nieces nephews and cousins than I can count" opinion, modern powders have made the "what caliber for a kid?" question obsolete. Pick what you like best and tune up a load with H4895 Or pick up a box of managed recoil.
Last edited by big honkin jeep; 11-23-2016 at 01:00 AM.
A good wife and a steady job has ruined many a great hunter.
I am just south of you, but you didn't state conditions. Open, woods, brush, 50 yds, 200 yds., etc.?
In my neck where most shots are under 100, there have been as many killed with a 30-30 over the years, although the bolt action has seemed to take over. I believe the 22-250 will recoil as much as a .243, if not more. Surely a 80-90 pill from a 243 wouldn't make them flinch.
Last edited by WV1951; 11-23-2016 at 11:07 AM.
Perhaps the answer lies in how deep your pockets are. How about the 30-30? What is the terrain you will be hunting and what are the ranges? I am a real big fan of the 7mm-08. Recoil is mild and it has taken a lot of deer for me. According to the recoil charts, the 30-30 has even less recoil. If your hunting ranges are under 150 yds. I would take a look at that caliber. In addition, you can pick a used levergun in 30-30 pretty cheap.
You can't beat single shot hammer gun for safety,my grandkids will be starting out with an H&R in 300BLK and the 110gr Barnes. Even has a threaded barrel so you can use a brake if needed to tame it even more. Good to 200 yds.
"An armed society is a polite society"
"...shall not be infringed" What's the confusion?
A lot of good advice and a lot to think about.
Hard to get in a factory rifle but the .250 Savage gets my vote. Great caliber for kids as recoil is very light even with the heavy 115gr bullets and they kill very quickly and effectively.
I vote 6.5 creed or 243 win. I believe these are the ideal cartridges for young hunters or those that are kick sensitive.
Get the 243 and use the Barnes 80gr ttsx. Will have pass through shots and light recoil. Get a good recoil pad and make sure LOP is correct for young shooter. Poor fitting stocks will increase felt recoil.
I have a gel recoil pad and foam cheek rest for my '06 and it tames that thing way down. People always worry about the 243 on deer, but a poor fitting stock will cause a poor shot and induce poor technique.
If not the 243 then a 308 with reduced recoil loads. The rifle still has to be properly fitted to the shooter. A new stock later is cheap when it comes to teaching proper shooting stye.
I agree the .300 BLK might not be a bad choice. I started my daughter with a .223 and it worked well. If you want a larger diameter bullet with low recoil the Barnes 110 grain offerings thru Nosler 125 grain bullets should work well if the ranges are kept reasonable.
.243 killed my first deer, my brother's and at least 5 others shot by kids fresh out of hunter safety. We took one kid who weighed 60 pounds soaking wet and he loved it. It was a youth rifle so the bigger kids shot 7-08 with no problems.
There is not much better of a feeling teaching a young kid to shoot, the discipline it takes to find a deer and the confidence to make a good shot. Most of these kids would have never hunted without some help and I get hero pictures yearly for some of them, even 10 years later.
22-250 is an experts gun not a learner rig. Make one little booboo or just have some bad luck or a tough deer and its disaster time.
A 243 has always been the GO TO rig for youth and newcomers. However it can have issues just like the 22-250 if things go bad.
A Creed or 260 with a brake would give you some insurance for bad luck and won't kick.
The 300BLK would be a great choice also.
Whatever you choose I would put a brake on it. A 10 yr old doesn't need to develop or try to CONTROL a FLINCH. Terrible idea to give a kid a flinch so slap a brake on it even if its a 243. Everyone should be running e-muffs by now anyway.
Just for some info, my sons 1st deer were shot with my Edge off of a bench and front rest and bags over 400 yds away. He was 9. Edge weighs 40 lbs and has a really good brake. I dialed the scope and he killed two does in about 15 seconds.
Caliber and cartridge don't matter. Easy to use, no recoil and enough power to make up for inexperience DO MATTER.
40 lb rifle? IME no amount of power makes up for a bad shot. A properly coached kid with a .224 caliber rifle and quality bullets is going to kill a lot of deer. Proper fitting stock dimension for a young shooter is more important than anything else if you want them to make good shots.
A fast moving expanding 338 WILL make up for a less than ideal placement. If you don't believe this you probably haven't killed hundreds of deer with one. I don't council using horsepower to make up for lack of skill. I do council to hit them as hard as you can. I don't care about killing something TOO DEAD. When you can get 100+ tags a year a little blown up meat doesn't have a real affect in the great scheme of things.
Of course the majority of animals I shoot are over 500 yds and your situation probably differs.
Yes most of my guns are pretty heavy and shot from a bench that I carry in my receiver hitch and drop to the ground for a shot. Point is it doesn't matter what gun you choose as long as it wont kick someone to death and has enough power to make up for a 8yr old getting excited and making a less than perfect shot.
Everyone's 1st reaction to a kids gun is a small light kicking gun, many of which are marginal deer rifles. Make any kind of mistake with a 22 caliber ANYTHING and get ready to see a kid very sad because they made an animal suffer or even lose it.
6.5 Grendel, Howa just came out with a reasonable prices bolt gun.
https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/6535022
I've got a couple Grendels in ARs, light weight, low recoil, excellent deer caliber. A bolt gun would be a very good starter gun.
Ditto the Grendel!
Several folks, some even a year or so younger, have harvested deer using this cartirdge in an AR.
A bolt gun is even better!
It could still be his go to deer rifle on his 90th birthday when he shows his great great grandkids how it is done..
to each their own, but that sounds lot more like killing than hunting. If you aren't prepared to explain to a kid they are ending a life and it can get ugly, you're not doing justice to the animal or the sport.
It's one thing to get pulled out of the truck, put behind a rifle and told to pull the trigger. It's totally different walking for an hour in the dark, carrying and protecting your rifle and shooting from a natural position at an animal you have watched, stalked and has no idea you are there. In the end, it is their choice to shoot. We provide the opportunities and some wont shoot. It's not for everyone, it is, for lack of a better term, intimate. There is a closeness you feel after following an animal for a day, a week or across seasons.
You are recommending this for a youngster who is 8 or 9 years old?
Yes, some would agree that might be a bit small and young for deer hunting. Nonetheless it is done, and I would feel far more comfortable if the replies fit more closely to the question posed in the OP.
I would propose that all recommendations for rifle and cartridge have no more recoil than a standard weight .243 Winchester with 100 gr-class factory ammunition.
The 30-30 carbine kicks a lot harder than the .243 because the carbine is so light and the bullets are so heavy
+1 30-30s are always touted as a beginner gun. Kinda like Mike Tyson would be a good guy for your 1st fight.
Throw in terrible stocks and inefficient round and ugh.
We killed 100s a year. Kinda hard to FOLLOW deer when doing that. We had a severe population problem and would often kill a dozen a day. My son understood that we were doing this to TRY to save the population. Didn't work as they died off anyway.
Everyones definition of HUNTING is different. We don't walk around and spread scent all over our property and freak deer out. We get to a high point and glass and then take the shot or maybe once in a blue moon pull a stalk with a bow. To each his own. Walking around where I hunt is a JOKE and will result in all of the deer in the area leaving your property for the year.
Act like farmer Brown feeding cattle and you can hunt them undisturbed all year. Deer don't mind trucks....people on foot....FREAKOUT.
I realize my situation isn't AVERAGE for most, most people have never killed ONE animal at the AVERAGE range we kill them at. Different areas call for different hunting styles.
I will repeat myself. Make sure it fits the child. If he is accurate with a 223 (and it's legal, it is here) then use a Barnes 50gr TTSX and go hunting. I know people that use a 22LR (no I won't say who or where) and they put it in the lungs. Deer walks 30ft, stands there for a few minutes and drops dead. My point is a well placed bullet will kill deer, period. If your grand kids can shoot a 243, even better.
In my opinion, there is no way I would let a kid shoot a rifle with a brake. A brake, to me, is only a way for someone to shoot something bigger than they should be shooting, that's just my opinion, and it applies only to civilian use.
The potential for hearing damage with a brake is phenomenal, and the damage is accumulative. They should be wearing hearing protection anyway, but a brake only points the blast back at the shooter, and others beside them. I have seen guys shoot big rifle with brakes, while hunting, only to blow debris in the eyes of people standing off to the side and behind the shooter. Sorry, but that is how I see it.
Use the lightest caliber possible, and a well designed bullet, and you will have a happy shooter. Having said all that, 8 or 9 IS pretty darned young to hunt deer.
Well the problem is, or has become, more of a language barrier than a discussion about guns for kids.
What Toddcdozer is talking about is a subject most here would reject because they have either no, or at least very little knowledge of it.
Its different, I don't understand the logic of it, so therefore I think its wrong, would be the average persons view.
But all that aside, I would be buying a young shooter/hunter either a 243 or a 7/08 and preferably the 7/08.
They fall off a bike and get hurt, then they get back on the bike. Same with the back yard gym set, and the little league sports.
Much about recoil is mind over matter, and when they get to the point they don't mind, it no longer matters.
Certainly by this point theve shot lots of 22 rimfires, and 223s, before being moved along to a bigger cartridge.
Actually, many shooters and hunters, especially those who shoot from benches, use a muzzle brake mainly because it makes it easier to see hits and stay on the target, and not necessarily for the recoil reduction aspect. Take a look at the photo of Lonewolf shooting prone/bipod, and observe the type muzzle brake. No dirt is being blown into his face, but with a different designed brake it would be. So again, we have people offering opinions with little knowledge of the subject matter.
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