New to rifles and reloading

[71velle]

I recently got the addiction to bench rifle shooting and figured its time to reload. I have a model 11 varmint 223 that might get upgraded later but ammo seems to be the major difference maker. I have found that shooting the lesser expensive ammo to be very inconsistent while match ammo gives me much much smaller groups. It seem as if my rifle likes hornady 68 gr BTHP match ammo and I would like to start to load something similar to start. I dont expect to equal the performance of the factory ammo right away but would like to as I experiment and become more experienced. I do shoot often and would like to save a few bucks long term as well as enjoying the hobby of loading.

At this point I do not own a press and leaning toward a single stage because many say it is much more consistent than a progressive. In my area primers and powder availability is hit or miss so I figured I would buy some supplies as I figure out which press.

At the LGS I was able to get CCI 400 primers and when asked about powder the only available id Alliant AR-Comp. I was reluctant to buy the powder not knowing if it would be a good powder for me. Their catalog does list a load with the bullet I would like to start with but recommends a Federal 205 primer. Alliant describes the powder to be good in a bolt rifle as well as AR rifles. Should I consider the powder and be oK with the CCI primer? I understand the trial and error to develop a round my rifle likes best but concerned that I am doing something that is ok and most importantly safe. Any advise and experience would be great as my head is starting to spin with all the info that is out there.

[Zero333]

I recommend the RCBS Rockchucker Supreme reloading kit. Cabela's has it for $300 and you get a $75 mail in rebate from RCBS.

Otherwise just get the Rockchucker press,
RCBS hand priming tool, a set of shell holders or just one for the 223 (different brand shell holders have different numerical markings but all fit all presses).
RCBS 5-0-5 scale ( or if you can afford it, the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 combo electronic dispenser/scale).
RCBS dies are my favorite for the money. I don't like Hornady or lee dies. Redding and Forster dies are better than RCBS but not necessary from my experience.
Eventually you will need a case trimmer and Lee Zip Trim is the most affordable and foolproof. You get the cutter and lock stud that works on all cartridges and a cartridge specific length pilot & holder. Many different trimming devices are out there so do some research, but you should be able to do at least 3 or 4 reloads before needing to trim the case. After trimming the case, you need to deburr the outside of the case mouth and chamfer the inside of the mouth. Those tools are available at reasonable prices.


Any Small rifle primer will work in the 223 so don't sweat it. Always start lower and work up in small increments to see where the accuracy is and never go over recommended max loads as a beginner.
AR-comp is a descent 223 powder but there are dozens out there that will work.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
http://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/223-remington/
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...aspx?gtypeid=2
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kdopwcxcqcimrud/h16TGLOjsb
http://blog.westernpowders.com/wp-co...1-2016_Web.pdf
http://www.realguns.com/loads/223r.htm
There are other sites with reloading data but that should get you started. You will notice no 2 manuals agree on max loads, and that's because they used different components and such so it's your duty to start lower (at starting load data) and work up watching for signs of pressure.
There is no such thing as too many reloading manuals !

How to read pressure signs ??? here is the best link on the net with detailed info....
https://www.primalrights.com/article...nding-pressure

There are books written about handloading so what I said is just the basics (very basics). Handloading can get extremely complex and involving over the smallest things like neck tension, neck turning, over length of the cartridge according to where the bullet hits the rifling and much much more.

Keep it simple, triple check everything but don't be intimidated and don't loose your confidence.

223 is a great cartridge to learn reloading with.

I'm sure I left out several important things, so hope other chime in and speak up. and Youtube is your friend !!! I learned basic handloading withing a few 10 to 20 minute videos.

[jpx2rk]

I use a Lee Anniversary kit from the mid 90's, the only upgrade I've done so far is a better beam scale as the Lee beam scale is difficult to see & read accurate IMO.

https://www.midwayusa.com/single-sta...ts/br?cid=8604

I just started reloading earlier this year tho I bought this kit new years ago to get started reloading but life got in the way . The kit will NOT have everything you need but will get you started w/o a ton of $$. Some of the first ammo I loaded with my own two hands and this kit produced 3 shot groups @100 yds that hide behind a dime in a 223 rifle that did not like/group any factory ammo at all, so these kits will make accurate ammo, you just need to do your part as well.

Get a good reloading manual as well, or several as all are a bit different with different loads for different bullets/powders etc.

[Shooter0302]

http://reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=18 lots of 223 data

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/215...-223-remington Lee will sells different OD mandrels so you can play with neck tensions, and by not dragging an "expander ball" through your cases you will aide in case life.
Brass; Bruno's sells Lapua brass by the piece, you decide if you need 100+ cases

You didn't mention scopes, look at different shooting site classifieds for used scopes, since you are BR shooting you are shooting at 100 & 200 yds, I would look for "made in Japan" fixed 36 x Tasco's
Stocks, "google" beaver tail stock add on's, basically a 3" or 4" flat board you attach to your stock.
Rest's here you can spend a house payment + on , again classifieds , look what other BR shooters are using both front and rear

Good Shooting

[LongRange]

by not dragging an "expander ball" through your cases you will aide in case life.

Good Shooting

just curious what makes you think this?

[Zero333]

If you remove the expander ball, you will have excessive neck tension !!!

RCBS dies work great with the expander ball. If you don't want to use the expander ball, you have to get bushing dies.

I have 308win brass (Winchester brand) that I've reloaded 25 times thus far and 243win (also Winchester brand) that I've reloaded 19 times and have not lost a single piece. I do however anneal every 5 reloads.

[FW Conch]

^ I can testify to the same using LEE collet neck sizer's. ^

[71velle]

I did get some powder but, not the AR comp because they just received Varget and told me it would be a better choice. I hope that is true since I have 8 lbs of it.

[Iowa Fox]

just curious what makes you think this?

I quit using expander balls many years ago as they are not conducive to accurate reloading. I have polished them with Flitz then waxed them, lube the inside of case necks with every lube and wax known to man. In every example I can measure what they do coming back out with calipers and a NECO concentrity gage. I started using bushing dies as an alternative, Redding & Wilson. Then Lee collet. Much better but still left me looking for something better. I have been using a full length die with no decapping stem thats matched to the chamber and then a custom expander in a M die used in a separate operation. Not saying its perfect but I have been having pretty good luck. Maybe I'll find something better as I keep experimenting.

[71velle]

I am getting close to buying the equipment and likely go with the RCBS rock chucker and many of their other products since they have a good rebate offer now.

Im not sure about the dies, I see there are many options that very greatly in price. I dont mind spending more if it allows me to make more accurate ammo. What do you guys recommend?

[The Old Coach]

just curious what makes you think this?

?? Over-swaging the neck and then expanding it again cannot help but work-harden the brass. More than either swaging against a mandrel as Lee does, or reducing it just enough using a Redding bushing die.

[The Old Coach]

Even the RCBS Junior is plenty for reloading .223/5.56. I've had the Lyman version of the Rockchucker, and after a few months went back to my ancient Junior. Easier to work around, for me. For loading at the range, nothing beats the old H.D.S. Compac, which is apparently no longer made. RCBS sold them. You'll have to find one on Gunbroker or evilBay. I could get by quite nicely with nothing but a Compac if I had to.

Dies. I'm not overwhelmed by RCBS dies, although for non-precision work I have at least twenty different calibers. Get you a full set of Redding's Competition dies. The Lee neck-sizing thing works, but the Redding bushing system works better IMHO. In any case you must have a micrometer seating die. Better dies do make better ammo! Do not skimp here.

If you choose to load bullets with a long, slim ogive, your seating die must have the correct stem. Redding calls it a VLD stem. Using the normal stem on those bullet will seat them crooked every time.

For powder scale, I have never found anything to make me give up my Lyman/Ohaus beam balance. You have to pay quite a lot to get an electronic scale that even comes close. Do not skimp here if you decide to go electronic.

Buy good new brass. I've wasted months of my life trying to make good brass out of run-of-the-mill LC or Remington. Buy Norma, despite the price.

Read, read, read, and study,study study. There's good books on benchrest shooting, and numerous YooToob videos.

[LongRange]

I quit using expander balls many years ago as they are not conducive to accurate reloading. I have polished them with Flitz then waxed them, lube the inside of case necks with every lube and wax known to man. In every example I can measure what they do coming back out with calipers and a NECO concentrity gage. I started using bushing dies as an alternative, Redding & Wilson. Then Lee collet. Much better but still left me looking for something better. I have been using a full length die with no decapping stem thats matched to the chamber and then a custom expander in a M die used in a separate operation. Not saying its perfect but I have been having pretty good luck. Maybe I'll find something better as I keep experimenting.

?? Over-swaging the neck and then expanding it again cannot help but work-harden the brass. More than either swaging against a mandrel as Lee does, or reducing it just enough using a Redding bushing die.

ok guys im not saying your way of sizing is wrong and i do think that bushing dies have a place in reloading but NOT in a factory or a no turn chamber...i can also tell you bushing dies and FL dies with no expander cause issues in no turn and factory chambers and even more so if you dont at least do a clean up turn on your necks...i agree the lee collet die is a great die and what id recommend over bushing dies to anyone wanting to neck size only but it can cause issues as well if your at least not doing a clean up turn on your necks.

now ive used redding dies and they are decent dies but forster dies are better,less expensive,the seating die comes with the VLD stem and you can send the FL die in if you choose to and have the neck honed to fit your chamber better and you can get custom expander balls to adjust neck tension.

ive done both...neck size only with bushings and the LCD...and FL sized...in my experience full length sizing has produced more accurate(and more importantly)more consistent ammo than neck sizing only.

again im not saying you guys are wrong and im right but i will say that the expander ball being pulled back through the neck does not effect accuracy the way everyone seems to think it does...in fact if your not turning necks a bushing die pushes all the imperfections in the necks to the inside of the neck which IMHO causes more issues than a ball being pulled back through.

and coach it takes more than a couple of time to work harden brass and why necks should be annealed every few firings.

[FiveInADime]

ok guys im not saying your way of sizing is wrong and i do think that bushing dies have a place in reloading but NOT in a factory or a no turn chamber...i can also tell you bushing dies and FL dies with no expander cause issues in no turn and factory chambers and even more so if you dont at least do a clean up turn on your necks...i agree the lee collet die is a great die and what id recommend over bushing dies to anyone wanting to neck size only but it can cause issues as well if your at least not doing a clean up turn on your necks.

now ive used redding dies and they are decent dies but forster dies are better,less expensive,the seating die comes with the VLD stem and you can send the FL die in if you choose to and have the neck honed to fit your chamber better and you can get custom expander balls to adjust neck tension.

ive done both...neck size only with bushings and the LCD...and FL sized...in my experience full length sizing has produced more accurate(and more importantly)more consistent ammo than neck sizing only.

again im not saying you guys are wrong and im right but i will say that the expander ball being pulled back through the neck does not effect accuracy the way everyone seems to think it does...in fact if your not turning necks a bushing die pushes all the imperfections in the necks to the inside of the neck which IMHO causes more issues than a ball being pulled back through.

and coach it takes more than a couple of time to work harden brass and why necks should be annealed every few firings.

This is a MONEY answer. I had to figure all this out on my own but I whole-heartedly second this opinion.

Forster dies are the biz-naz for no-turn chambers. As a matter of relevant fact to the original poster, I have a set of Forster .223Rem dies with the non-micrometer seater die. It makes perfectly concentric necks and bullet run out (+/- .001") tested on my friend's (a benchrest shooter) gauges. Don't spend extra on the micrometer seater unless you'll shoot a bunch of different bullets in one gun.

I'm getting ready to build a custom rifle in 28 Nosler off of a push-feed Win M70. I really wish Forster would make some dies for that cartridge.

[71velle]

It seems as if there are various preferences on the dies but all agree they are very important in building accurate rounds. I hope to load on bullet type, but may experiment a little. Could I go wrong with this set? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/18...-223-remington

[LongRange]

It seems as if there are various preferences on the dies but all agree they are very important in building accurate rounds. I hope to load on bullet type, but may experiment a little. Could I go wrong with this set? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/18...-223-remington

nope...those are a great starting point and if you look around you can find them a little cheaper.

This is a MONEY answer. I had to figure all this out on my own but I whole-heartedly second this opinion.

Forster dies are the biz-naz for no-turn chambers. As a matter of relevant fact to the original poster, I have a set of Forster .223Rem dies with the non-micrometer seater die. It makes perfectly concentric necks and bullet run out (+/- .001") tested on my friend's (a benchrest shooter) gauges. Don't spend extra on the micrometer seater unless you'll shoot a bunch of different bullets in one gun.

I'm getting ready to build a custom rifle in 28 Nosler off of a push-feed Win M70. I really wish Forster would make some dies for that cartridge.

give john widden a call...his off the shelf dies are a step above forster and still reasonably priced.

[m12lrs]

It seems as if there are various preferences on the dies but all agree they are very important in building accurate rounds. I hope to load on bullet type, but may experiment a little. Could I go wrong with this set? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/18...-223-remington

I would highly recommended it. I have several.

[FiveInADime]

give john widden a call...his off the shelf dies are a step above forster and still reasonably priced.

He'll make customs, as well? I might inquire about a set of 28 Nosler dies.



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[Robinhood]

Looking at the fact that you are just starting out, I would go with the Forster. When you need to up your game 5 + points at 600 go to the Whidden.

[RC20]

First: Get either a Hornaday or Sierra manual. Why?

They both have a long list of powders and each mfg makes a wide range of bullet types in any given weight (I have both manuals)

All those powders have been tested and proven to be accurate. You may wind up with something else but its by far the best staring point.

You can look around for used equipment as well. You can tell if its been taken care of. One brother just decided he was never going to reload again and just gave me his Rock Chucker. If I get the room I am set for life.

Where I do diverge from a lot is electronic scales, better than sliced bread (IMNSHO). I am almost as fast as an auto dispenser with mine.

What many do not get is you have to understand zero and how to deal with drift, all the lower cost ones drift, higher ones I have not tried yet.

Rather than go through the zero process you weight your powder pan, use a sharpie and mark it (of put it where you can see it)

You then use the standard process, pan on scale, note weight. It should match your written down number.

Then zero it. Each time you take the pan off, look at the display. Is it still the weight you wrote down, or has it changed?

If its changed, you zero it again with the pan on the scale, lift pan, check weight. Is it the one your wrote down? Good to go.
.1 off is not an issue, when they drift .2 or .3 they mean it.

Lyamn has come out with an interesting looking one, it has the powered trickler built on it and can be put on the left or right side.

I am going to get that one.

Stick with FL sizing for now.

You do need to research minimum shoulder bump back and depending on your brass situation, you may want to anneal.

223 is pretty commons at the range, I would just run it though and not worry, but if you buy good brass then you need to consider it.


Trimming: I won't go into gory details, but I have found one Trimmer type that works. Two mfgs (may be others) , one cost more than the other and gets you more.

They are the Off The Shoulder Index trimmers. Gerard Tri Trimmer is my choice now though the Little Crow is nice, just does not do as much.

Your lengths come out no more than .003 difference (and hand trimmers I have used I just had to check each one to see)

The Gerard also chambers and de-burs the case, Little Crow does not. Little crow ok for hunting workups (fare fewer) Gerard better for target shooting larger quantities .

I found I could clamp my Cord Drill in the vice, put the lock in on and trim as fast as the Motorized Gerarad (as opposed to the Tri Trimmer). The Motorized unit is nice, also expensive though if you do more than 3 calibers it can pay for itself.

$100 rogly for the Tri Trimmer, $80 for Little crow and the Motorized Gerard is $450 as I recall.

[LongRange]

He'll make customs, as well? I might inquire about a set of 28 Nosler dies.



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yes just send him a couple of fired cases.

[71velle]

Ok, thanks guys!!! I guess the Foster dies its is....

It looks like the RCBS mic gauge could be a useful tool any reason not to get it?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/477...-223-remington

[Robinhood]

The Hornady stuff is very versatile. if you buy both the case headspace and the stoney point gauges from hornady you can expand to measure multiple cartridges easily. If you plan on just reloading for the 1 cartridge then the rcbs is fine.

[71velle]

I will only be reloading 223 and dont see owning any other rifle calibers.

[hardnosestreetcop]

+71velle it appears you have been well schooled on the dies, let me pass this tip on to you from my 30 years of reloading the .223. When it comes to your brass you have mil-spec brass headstamped WWC, IMI, LC, FC. These cases have a crimp in the primer pocket, which must be removed prior to a new primer being installed. These cases have a smaller powder capacity, thus you must reduce the max load by 5%. The commercial brass is headstmped Federal, Winchester, Remington. These cases have a greater powder case capacity than the mil-spec brass. Further more it would be to your advantage not to mix your headstamp use one headstamp at a time during your load development. By mixing different headstamps which will have different mouth thickness will effect your crimp, pressure, velocity, and your grouping.