I agree with everything you said but it has to be a movement.
Suppose, for example, our good friend who started making custom pre-fit barrels out of his garage a few years ago was required then, to pay this fee or risk going to prison? Do you think he would have been able to start his small business and grow it into a small but viable, honorable and worthy business and serve us the way he has been? Heck, no, he wouldn't have. And who do you think has the most to gain from these kind of regulations? The big, existing companies. What they don't recognize, though, is how much their success depends, ultimately, on the little guy. By the time they do wake up and realize it, it will be too late for EVERYONE.
I agree with everything you said but it has to be a movement.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I understand.
I am saying we have to WAKE UP! Obama has done this all over the place, and Hillary will do the same. If everyone who get's bumped out of their little niche business or who is prevented from starting a niche business remains silent and unmotivated to act, then EVERYONE will be affected eventually.
It's hard to explain, but let me offer one more simple example I bet no one here is aware of...
Obama's Department of Labor did the same thing to ALL of us earlier this year. In brief, the DOL decided you, I mean YOU, cannot buy insurance or retirement products for your IRA if the salesman or financial planner that offers/recommends it earns a commission from the deal. I ask you, what right does the Department of Labor have to interfere with your relationship with your financial planner or insurance agent? NONE! But they did it just the same. Its only one of MANY examples and the people that think the way he does has every intention of managing your lives in EVERY matter possible, beyond your imagining, I assure you.
Furthermore, start a "MOVEMENT" and see how quickly you get added to the "DO NOT FLY LIST", or, soon to be known as the"DO NOT BUY GUNS LIST". or, "THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION LIST".
Oh, Foxx, you are being ridiculous!
Next thing you is claim the IRS will target conservative-leaning Non-Profits so as to stifle them and their disagreeable agendas...
or the Secretary of State will willfully thwart the Freedom of Information Act and then be elected to the highest office in the land and, in fact, the world.
Before anyone else gets their boxers in a knot over this lets first try to get some clarification and more information before calling for a revolution. I can't find a single mention of it on GOA's website or the NSSF's website, and there's just the one statement from the NRA-ILA thus far. Everything else I've seen has just been a proliferation of the NRA-ILA's statement. Even this piece from Prince Law Offices, P.C. basically says the same thing the NRA-ILA statement does without going into much more detail on who is and isn't required to register.
This write up from Modern Rifleman offers a little more information in the third paragraph from the bottom regarding individuals threading their own barrels, but is it factual or presumed? He gives no reference to where that info came from or where it's stated.
So far the best Q&A I've found on this was over at 6mmBR.com in the comments to their post.
I've still yet to find anything pertaining to the language in 3a regarding "assisting in the design, development or repair of a firearm" and any/all forms of publishing.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/complia...ufacturers.pdf
This document from the state department clearly states that barrel makers and smiths who install barrels on an existing firearm must be registered and pay the fee.
Seeking clarification earlier this year, I sent an email requesting guidance and was told I could not convert a bolt action .308 to 450BM and sell it under a Class 7 manufacturer's license without first registering with the State Department and paying the fee. I was then invited to seek formal, written response from DOS by detailing my exact intentions, which I did, but was never responded to.
I just got off the phone with a representative from the State Department's "Response Team" (phone number listed at the bottom of their document sited above).
I was told they rec'd my inquiry, along with hundreds of others, and I can expect a response soon. From what I could gather, they have "bitten-off more than they can chew" with these regulations. They want to supervise EVERY gun manufacturer so as to determine whether they are making guns that threaten the safety of the American people but cannot afford to do so without charging high registration fees such as this. When in reality, it does not matter WHO builds AR-15's and sells them to a potential terrorist. If the AR-15 is a lawful firearm, and it ends up in the hands of someone hell-bent on destruction, it's gonna get done whether the firearm was assembled/manufactured in my garage or Bushmaster's factory.
I see this has made it here now......this story is spreading like wildfire. It's going to affect me and my business in a big way. If it isn't stopped, I will probably discontinue my business completely. I'll wrap up all of my orders then shut everything down. Then I will try to get on S.S. disability. I don't have any other choices left to me.
Most of the old timers know my opinion on this stuff and what I think about our government from the old days of the forum. All I can really say......it's become reality now. I'm giving it until I see how this plays out as well as how the election turns out.....then I will have to make a decision. Right now, the NRA is aware of it, my senators and congressman have been made aware of it......they are the only ones that have enough stroke to do anything about this. If they let this go........and it becomes law...........I'm done. I'm sure there are a LOT of small gun related businesses that are in the same boat.
It's the old "End-around" play...
The liberals will do ANYTHING they can to undermine the firearm industry and drive people out of business, no matter how small, large or inconsequential they are to the stated issue of trying to protect the American citizen. If you hate guns, there is no rational or persuasive argument against doing what they are doing. Once that is done, our entire way of life is destroyed because the common citizen will not have the means to defend himself and the rest of his countrymen against tyranny. That is FACT, folks, not an opinion.
Guys, listen to me, PLEASE.
I do not mean to make fun of or pick on Apache with the following information I will share with you all. I simply want you to appreciate the situation for what it is. For example...
I spoke with Apache about this this past February. He is clearly a very reasonable and level headed guy. He represents the best of our hobby and industry. But when I raised the issue with him, he really thought I was being ridiculous and maybe even paranoid. I clearly must have misunderstood the situation. In no way would these regulations affect his business or mine. He tried to reason with me and reassure me that I was mistaken. I wanted to trust his judgment, I truly did, because the ramifications and implications of MY interpretation of the situation was so earth shattering. Well, as it turns out, I was right. IF they continue to move forward with this interpretation of their responsibilities at the State Department, and they certainly say they are, it is the beginning of the end. And, even if Trump is elected and he overturns this on his first day in office, the damage will be done. Jim will not likely be back in business. Nor will I. Who cares? YOU should care.
PLEASE speek up! PLEASE call your congressmen and senators. This is REAL.
What Norm is telling you is absolutely true!!! I didn't think much of this when he brought it up. I really didn't think this administration would really be this stupid. I did see how it was setting up for a future version of this. My hope was that we would be able to stop this through the election processes........seems I was seriously wrong at this point.
I just didn't think it would happen anywhere near this soon. I was thinking this would take several years to implement this....over multiple administrations. It seems they are moving much faster than I anticipated.
Guys...I'm telling you, you need to get on the horn with you governmental representatives and make your voices heard. The "fundamental changes" this regime is making are doing some very serious damages.
Originally Posted by foxx
Which EO is this specifically I was trying to find the actual order to read the order. https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...gnment-certain
[QUOTE=fgw_in_fla;256183]We told you so...[/QUOTE]
I cant find the order, either. All i can find and all i have discussed with the State Department is their regulations as spelled out in the link i posted about 5 up from here. #32
Last edited by foxx; 08-01-2016 at 07:42 PM. Reason: added post #32
Prior to the last presidential election, Bruce Baer told me that if the president was reelected, he and most other gunsmiths would be forced out of business.
Is this what you're looking for?
https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/complia...ufacturers.pdf
Lot's of discussions on this here too: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/thr...-more.3906517/
No I am looking for a specific EO. This is the one signed on the 22cd: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...gnment-certain, but it reads like greek to me.
[QUOTE=fgw_in_fla;256183]We told you so...[/QUOTE]
I dont think thats the one we are talking about. It appears to me, at this point, the State Department is not relying on an EO. I could be wrong, however
Well, this has me very concerned as well and really in a bind as how to move forward. I am a new class 07 FFL holder, submitted my paper work in December and received my License the first part of April of this year. I was encouraged by the BATF that what I was wanting to do would require the 07 license, (installing brakes and rebarreling Rifles) along with other common gunsmithing such as bedding jobs and what not. I was told at my inspection that I would not be required for the ITAR registration as long as I worked on owner supplied actions and parts and thats what I have been doing for the last few months. I have always been a gun nut and have always worked on all my own stuff and enjoy it a lot. I decided to take the next step because I was always being asked to do this or that by people when I was at the range. I figured what the heck and take this to the next level and make this a supplemental income that I enjoy doing. Well long story short I am now about 8 grand in debt with a new lathe and tooling plus busniess start up costs and now this ruling comes down from on high and has my head spinning on what to do. Do I cut my losses and run? Try to sell my lathe and tooling and recoup some of my debt or stick it out and hope to absorb the cost of doing business and be marginally successful. I am not trying to get rich and I know gunsmithing is not generally a large money making endeavor I am just trying to have fun and make a little play money in the process.
Stomp442,
This may answer what you're wanting to know....
https://blog.princelaw.com/2012/08/1...manufacturers/
Does that not suggest that home gunsmithing for one's own collection would be exempt, since the home hobby gunsmith is not soliciting or receiving any work from the public?In response to questions from persons engaged in the business of gunsmithing, DDTC has found in specific cases that ITAR registration is not required because the following activities do not meet the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning of “manufacturing” that DDTC employs in implementing the ITAR and, therefore, do not constitute “manufacturing” for ITAR purposes:
If this is an Executive order the White house is unaware.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...ecutive-orders
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Not a presidential executive order. It's an action taken by faceless and soulless bureaucrats in the State Dept. to fiddle a regulatory definition. Although they are now looking up at Obama with shining faces, saying, "Did do good, Oh Emperor Obama. Do I get a reward?"
Guys.....please don't let this slide off into some kind of political slamming......keep it on topic and informative......and as respectful as possible. It's too important to get it locked up.
Wow! So yeah sounds like I pay the Ransom to play or close up shop and quit. No middle ground what so ever for a small shop.
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