Apache VS Bison?

[foxx]

Yes. Jim is all that and more. No question.

If I were in a hurry, and needed a hunting barrel, I would not hesitate even a moment to go with Bison.

[FOGELLY]

What is the industry standard on wait times? 3,4,-6,7 months?
I have only ordered one "semi custom barrel" just want to make sure I have the correct expectation.
Ordered a .358win from Apache in December.

[foxx]

^^^^ It's more complicated than that.

Most gunsmiths (such as Apache) that build off of blanks supplied by bigger operations are at the mercy of the blank makers. The blanks are made in batches and, depending upon demand, get backed up at times. Someone like Apache might have 15 different varieties of blanks he is waiting for at any given time. He takes orders, they get backlogged and he keeps busy building the barrels he can get the blanks for. Once he falls behind, it is difficult to catch up. Sometimes, I am sure (but I don't know for certain), a specific blank might come available but he does not know about it in time to place the order before it's sold out again. (I am only speculating here, but I have been deeply involved in this barrel making process long enough to say that's what can happen).

The "big boys" don't necessarily have that exact problem, but they do make everything in batches and so do the raw material providers. Things get backed up. No one individual is to blame. Then there's the problem of cash flow, at times, I am sure.

[jsthntn247]

I don't know really how to answer this, but your last sentence is almost hitting the nail on the head. In fact it might be directly on the head of the nail.

We have the prenuptial about 98% worked out, so what you see on the website is all facts.

I can assure all Jim is trying to get all the orders out that are current.

Everyone will be hearing from Jim shortly. Apache Gun Works will be stronger than ever, just give him a few more days.

Several have sent PM's or emails to me. I am answering them the best I can, please be assured of this. But please, don't flood me with messages on current orders with Jim. I will still have to talk to him which takes away time from his machine shop. Orders getting ready depend on him being in his shop. It should be straighten out realistically within 90 days. I am sure it will be shorter than 90 days, but I want to give plenty time for him to catch up.

Jim is a great person and a great machinist. You will be hearing from him.

Dennis

Jim must have went from a manual lathe to a CNC machine to be cranking barrels out that fast.

[Dennis]

Jim must have went from a manual lathe to a CNC machine to be cranking barrels out that fast.

Jim has a great problem and he is spending many hours on the phone, computer, and then tries to get a few hours in his shop to fill the orders.

This should pretty well explain the merger.

We have a great production plan worked out, Inventory will be our biggest concern and it will be watched and stocked as business demands. Jim is going to focus on production and quality. I definitely will say "Quality" is his biggest concern, one of the main reasons I believe in Jim.

I spoke with Jim at length this evening, you will be hearing from him soon.

He is catching up,

Dennis

[RC20]

Good deal, I like seeing something come together that is a benefit not only to the two parties involved but we get a great resource as well.


Guys: My barrel is on the way and I am on primers and powder now.

[RC20]

Jim does great work and I highly reccomend his barrels. for the level of work and attention to detail at his cost he can't be beat. I think the whole remote control society we live in is to blame. gotta have it now which is fine for those who are willing to cheat themselves for instant gratification....

While that may be true, it was not for me. I have a wait time on a Bull 30-06 of another 3 weeks at best and as much as 5 weeks. I am ok with that, would like it now of course but that's just a rare combo (this was before I discovered Dennis and Jim so I am not double dating!)

In the meantime it occurred to me that I could put a 308 barrel on the 111 and get a handle on the accuracy fall off on the 12FV (I don't want to disassemble it as its still under a year old, that said Savage does not seem to be too excited about anything other than 3 shot groups and the barrel is ok, just not as good as it was nor what I want)

So when I went looking for the 308 NSS had a Criterion, but Dennis responded first and in the meantime I had read good things about him, X-Caliber and Jims work. It seems like both a great combination and my future source for barrels and I can plan further in advance (the project gun came up for what I wanted at a price that suited much sooner than I expected)

I complicated things by wanting a 26 inch and that was a mistake on my part.

I did not get that I was throwing a complication into their situation where Jim is overloaded and balancing 55 barrels and trying to be the business end as that's what pays the bills.

We worked it out, I will take more than my share of responsibly on that, Dennis and Jim obviously are doing all they can and as good, both recognizing where they were and are and are doing something about it.

What I do appreciate form a mechanics/technician standpoint is that there is no compromise on the quality. Its ****ed easy to say screw it to meet the short term. To twist Napoleon around, Quality has a quantity all of its own. Been there, done that, I knew it, I was not in control and did not like it but there is always a consequences .

Once your reputation is shot (bad pun intended) you can't get it back fully, sometimes not at all.

Ergo, while Criterion puts out mostly good barrels, they have enough poor ones that its not my first choice. McGowan seems to be the same. X-caliber seems to be really solid in quality.

SO, while a bit frustrated, I realized what I had done and I admire Jims adherence to sticking to his barrels (as it were) and I appreciate Dennis efforts in dealing with it.

They are now my first, second and third choice for future needs.

[thatguyshm]

I have a Green Mountain barrel in 338-06 turned down by Jim at Bison Gun Works, and it's a shooter for sure. I can put three 225gr Accubonds at half an inch at 100 yards, and under 2" @ 300 yards no problem. He did a heck of a job on our, and he built me a 6mm BR x-caliber heavy Palma contoured that I just screwed onto another action for the misses. Still waiting on a stock on that one, so no telling how it will fire yet. He got the 6mm to my front door in two weeks from payment.

[eddiesindian]

I ordered a 260 X cal back in late March. In that time, I felt it important to communicate with Jimmy personally to adjust my order. It was done far in advance as to not make things more complicated for him. Ive not e-mailed or spoken to him since. I feel theres no need to. I was fully aware of wait times. With that said, if the wait time becomes 4-5 months?...then communication between me the consumer and him the seller is justifiably called for.
Ive been a certified tech for the Ford Motor Company for 40 years. Ive been over hauling Ford Transmissions since 1976. If its one thing that Ive learned? communication and updates on status is the back bone to any successful business.
Im at the mercy of The Ford Motors Company's ability to get me the parts needed to complete the repair on any given customers vehicle. When that doesn't happen in a timely manner?......I become back logged quickly. I may have upwards of 3-4 transmssions laying on work benches in pieces. the nightmare begins, such that of Jimmy not getting blanks on time.
Bottom line?.......its a business. Im aware of the fact that the more time JImmies on the net answering questions about his product, the less time on his machines which means more wait time for us the consumer.
Its all about communication.
In the mean time, Im waiting on my barrel. No harm, no foul. Ive got dozens of other rifles to play with in the mean time.

[RC20]

I worked with Dennis as the barrel was through him, that was better as he bird dogs the situation as needed but leaves Jim to do his work.

I think they are on the right track with making that formal.

The 308 barrel came in and looks really good. Two range sessions, working in the 1/2 to 3/4 MOA area and believe any variance is me. i.e. I suspect the barrel is capable of sub 1/2, I just need to get the trigger let off correct and still playing with powders, bullets and COAL

[earl39]

Had Jim make me a 338 federal barrel a while back and have just now really started playing with it. (disclaimer) It is on a DPMS lower (AR hence the disclaimer) and built just for hog hunting. Finally took it out the other night and make a great shot on a 200lb sow. After thinking about it i realized the great neck shot was bad cause i was aiming at the shoulder. Started wondering is it the gun the scope or the load. Well i took the ATN X-sight off and put a Sightron Slll on and it printed the load like a shotgun. guess i got in a hurry when i started load work. Changed the load from BLC-2 over to a rather light charge of IMR-4064 and started printing 1/2-3/4 inch groups at 130 yards. My target is set at 130 due to available shade. Reformed 7.62x51 WCC 06 brass with S&B LRM primers 40gr IMR-4064 under 225gr SST and a nice crimp from a LFC die. Did not ask Jim what barrel maker he used but belive this is a Green mountain barrel. Doesn't really matter if it is Billy Joe Jim Bob's car axle with groups like that out of a big bore AR. Jim does good work and even the cheaper barrel blanks will shoot when fed the right ammo.

[thatguyshm]

I have a DPMS 338 Fed and a Ruger m77 in 338 Fed all also. I absolutely love the cartridge. I haven't had much luck with 225gr slugs unless they are moving around 2450 or so. I can push the 200gr hot-cor around 2675-2725 depending on powder used, and I've started working on the 180gr Accubonds for the bolt gun. Just trying to figure out seating depth using Alliant Varmint powder for around 2825, low es. Interesting working with that combination. I've done lots of testing with different loads, it's such a great shooter.

SHM

[Bigt240]

I'll throw my two cents in. Purchased a 223 barrel from Bison and couldn't be happier. It's a 7 twist wylde for shooting 80gr amax. Built it around an axis for a budget plinker to tide me over until I get my 308 done. I spent plenty of time talking to Dennis and others on here and barrels seem to be a lot like women, they all like to be treated in there own special way, some last and others dont, some are expensive and some not. I will say that I'm so impressed with accuracy of the Bison barrel that I'm contemplating a 6.5 build around one.

[thatguyshm]

Five shots with the Bison built 6mm BR I made for the wife. I know where I'll be headed back next barrel I need. X-cal blank, 8 twist.




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[chetc]

what stock is on your 6br

Chet

[thatguyshm]

what stock is on your 6br

Chet

A Richard's Microfit with whidden v block. Marksmen style with 3" fore end. Devcon used for the epoxy.



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[chetc]

any pics of your stock

Chet

[thatguyshm]

any pics of your stock

Chet

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