Which 6.5 Long Action

[WinnieTheBoom]

Look, that custom 30x378 can send a 200 gr bullet at 3500 fps and you can take that to the bank.

Where are you getting these numbers? I'd like to see this 'custom 30-378' shoot that 200gr projectile 3,500 fps. Nosler's maximum published load for their 200gr Accubond is just over 3,000. So what you're saying is that one can reasonably expect to gain about 15% velocity in a custom rifle? I'm sorry but something doesn't sound right.

Furthermore, they're showing their 220gr Accubond traveling just a hair over 2,900 fps... The .338 Lapua 250gr Accubond is shown traveling around the same - just a little over 2,900 fps. So I think it's safe to say that a 230gr bullet out of the 30-378 is hardly sniffing the performance of a 285/300gr .338.

Again, compare similar weight bullets and case capacities if you're going to compare different calibers. There's no arguing that the 30-378 isn't a fantastic round - it is - but to say that it has better velocity over a comparably sized 7mm or that it will match and surpass the performance of a .338 Lapua ballistically is just not true.

Getting slightly off track here.

[WinnieTheBoom]

Velocity is hands down better with 30 cal Winnie if you go with the larger 30 calibers.
With a 30x378 you could send a 230 berger at better speeds than with a large 7mm with the 195s.
And frankly, if you shoot less than 285/300 gr bullets in the 338s with less than about 2900 fps velocity, you might just as well stick with 30 cal.

I'm sorry yobuck but that's simply incorrect. A 30-378 will sling 200gr bullets to MAYBE 3,100 fps. A 7mm Allen Magnum (based on a .338 Lapua case) will sling 200 gr bullets over 3,300 fps. The point being that all else being equal, namely case capacity, 7mm velocity will ALWAYS trump .30 cal velocity. This is not opinion, this is fact.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'larger .30 calibers,' but at least compare apples to apples.

[yobuck]

I'm sorry yobuck but that's simply incorrect. A 30-378 will sling 200gr bullets to MAYBE 3,100 fps. A 7mm Allen Magnum (based on a .338 Lapua case) will sling 200 gr bullets over 3,300 fps. The point being that all else being equal, namely case capacity, 7mm velocity will ALWAYS trump .30 cal velocity. This is not opinion, this is fact.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'larger .30 calibers,' but at least compare apples to apples.

Winnie, I'm sure your a really nice guy, but youve read too many books and not done enough shooting with these type guns.
Don't believe a word ive said and that's fine with me. But, if your really curious as to wether that old kook has lost all his marbles for making such outlandish statements, make a few phone calls and get your facts straight.
Ive known guys whove claimed 3600 fps, but they will also admitt to 1 firing from the brass.
My load wasent a particularly hot load at 113 gr of h570 with the 200 gr in a 36" barrel.
118 gr of the slower h870 or wc872 would put the bullets at the same location at the 1500 rock ledge we shoot at frequently.
145 to 150 1/4 min clicks on the dial should help you to at least roughly decipher the velocity. 200 clicks were needed at 1700 yds which is the furthest I ever shot the gun. AT that point, 240s were landing in the same place with same clicks. The gun was also really out of gas at that distance as for any kind of accuracy.
I don't know how much luck you will have getting these people to answer their phones, because if the machines are running they wont answer. And frankly, they are usually running and you can google them for the numbers.
Try Bruce Baer in Willow Hill PA, also Mark King in I believe Duncannon PA, and also Kevin Cram in Danville PA.
Kevin would be the youngest, but certainly as able as the others as for his work. But I'm not as sure as to his first hand experience with the 30x378. He is however a very experienced long range hunter as are the other 2, and might also be easier to contact.
For sure he as well as the others could set you straight as to what you believe are silly statements.
If your serious about shooting at extreme distances, you would have been wise to discuss your options with someone like one of these guys first, and hopefully you did. Otherwise it will be learning by trial and error and you will either give up on It, or ultimately seek out good advise from someone who does this for a living every day.
For starters, I have some doubt any of these guys would advise building any 338 on any Savage action.
So if your afraid you might hear that, be forewarned as to that possibility.

[Hotolds442]

Short answer: Yes. With today's powder selection, the 7x378 is more feasible than it was 60 years ago when you were mentally masturbating or whatever you choose to call it. Barrel life is still an issue, accuracy had fallen off after 250 rounds in 2 different kreiger barrels. He's happier now with the 30/378 and isn't looking for an alternative. But it's overkill on this side of the states.

[yobuck]

Short answer: Yes. With today's powder selection, the 7x378 is more feasible than it was 60 years ago when you were mentally masturbating or whatever you choose to call it. Barrel life is still an issue, accuracy had fallen off after 250 rounds in 2 different kreiger barrels. He's happier now with the 30/378 and isn't looking for an alternative. But it's overkill on this side of the states.

Well you did confirm what I said, and for what its worth, ive always been a follower on these type things.
Its got to be shown to me before I can come to grips with reality just like many others. But the wheel does get reinvented
in every generation.
As for the powders we had, for sure there were fewer of them. But that dosent mean there weren't some good ones,
with many still very popular today. That's especially true for cartridges like 30x378s.
I still have a small supply of ww2 surplus h570 which is a powder most today would have never heard of.
Were finding it offers the best all round performance in my sons 338x378 over all the others
weve tried including rl33. When I mentioned this to Bruce Baer, he asked me if id tried it in my 338 Big Baer.
I said I hadn't, to which he said well you should, that's what I use in mine for hunting.
It is also the most accurate powder in my 7x300 wby although 7828 gives more velocity and decent accuracy.
If you look in an older Sierra loading manual you will find the 7x300 wby listed for just one load. That would be the load
Mary Louise DeVito used to set the first recognised Williamsport group record. It was 87 gr h570 with a 168 smk.
Reality is we weren't lacking for anything we needed for this 50 years ago. We even found ways of ranging things then hitting them
with scopes and equiptment being laughed at today. But bring your Vectrinix, and money, and we'll see who laughs best.

[Dewey7271]

Thanks for the reply. Not sure what I started here:). I have 1 bolt action gun a .270 win. I've had it for 20 years and love it. I enjoy being able to put a rifle together that is custom to me. I also like having something different then the guys I hunt/shoot with have. Pretty much everyone has either a .270, 30-06 or .300 min mag. I don't find the .300 fun to shoot so if I went with a cal with more punch I'd look into a brake. I live in Michigan and where I hunt a 150 yard shot is long. we started going out to eastern Montana and the shot possibilities are so much different. This past year I shot a mulie at 423yds with a 130 grain sst. It dropped where it stood. I'm a believer in shoot placement and not shooting farther than I'm capable. The range I shoot @ is 500 meters. I'm looking to set up a 500yd gun. Maybe stretch that a little has I become more comfortable with practice. I do like the fast ones though:)

Ok. 500 or less.
Huge BCs aren't going to be quite as relevant then.
The 6.5s will have plenty of punch for Bambi at that range. Most of the 6.5s also aren't bad at all on recoil. Your original 2 choices would work well for that, either of them. You want some speed and don't mind wildcats then add the 6.5 WSM. You could build a 6.5-300 Weatherby also if you don't mind belts. A little hard on barrels but it and the 6.5 WSM will zoom them for you.
I mentioned barrels are consumables. Generally the faster it runs the quicker the barrel wears so keep that in mind.
Good luck! This should be fun for you.

[bw34]

Ok. 500 or less.
Huge BCs aren't going to be quite as relevant then.
The 6.5s will have plenty of punch for Bambi at that range. Most of the 6.5s also aren't bad at all on recoil. Your original 2 choices would work well for that, either of them. You want some speed and don't mind wildcats then add the 6.5 WSM. You could build a 6.5-300 Weatherby also if you don't mind belts. A little hard on barrels but it and the 6.5 WSM will zoom them for you.
I mentioned barrels are consumables. Generally the faster it runs the quicker the barrel wears so keep that in mind.
Good luck! This should be fun for you.

Thanks Dewey. I'll check out those 2. I'm aware that I could go though some barrels. If I do it just means I'm having fun

[yobuck]

The 6.5x300 Weatherby was popular with hunters 50 years ago. Today nobody uses them because there are more/better options.
The 6.5 wsm is a hotrod 6.5, but I personaly found it so good I unloaded mine after 320 rounds.
There are at least 2 others here who will offer similar opinions on that cartridge. But hey I'm a lefty, maybe a righty would have different results? lol.
Everything will work well for 500 yds without using a hotrod.
Any one of the factory 6.5s or a 6.5x06 would be a good choice. So would a 270 or a 25x06 and a 308.
If I were younger and could still walk around well, id be building a 280 ai for my every day gun with the exception of varmits.
From there id be going directly to a 338 with 300 gr bullets for the longer distances.

[Robinhood]

Global Warming?

[WinnieTheBoom]

buck, I'm sure you're a nice guy as well, but none of what you posted has any relevance to what I said.

I've talked to plenty of guys (none that you listed, but others that are just as qualified) and done enough LR shooting myself... never hunting mind you, but shooting, and I stand by what I said.
There's no arguing that the 30-378 isn't a fast shooter, it obviously is. But my point was that, all things being equal (action, barrel & length, etc.), putting a 7mm bullet and a .30 cal bullet over the same amount of powder is going to net you the same results. The 7mm is going to be faster. That's not reading books, that's standard physics. I'm glad you know guys that have claimed 3,600 fps out of a 30-378. That's fantastic!

Now tell them to do the same thing with a 7mm and report the results. I'm not even arguing if a 7mm or a 30-378 is a better long range round. I'm saying if you're looking for a flatter shooting, faster round, the 7mm is going to take the cake. That's what research shows (and by extension, 'what the books say'), that's my personal experience, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's most people's opinions (you being the exception). Unfortunately, that's going to hold a lot more weight than you coming on a internet board and saying you know a guy that knows a guy that got 3,600 fps out of a 30-378. To be honest, I really couldn't care less. Classic case of being the exception and not the rule.

As far as the .338 Lapua goes, what does that have to do with anything? Honestly. Just because I decided to build one on a Savage action doesn't make it right, and just because seasoned gunsmiths 'would advise against building any .338 on a Savage action' doesn't make it wrong. But I'm failing to see what the point of even bringing that up was. I've got no dog in this fight, and am perfectly fine with differences of opinion, but some of you old school guys need to realize that there isn't just one way of doing things. And that's not a knock on you or anyone, it's simply personal preference.

[yobuck]

buck, I'm sure you're a nice guy as well, but none of what you posted has any relevance to what I said.

I've talked to plenty of guys (none that you listed, but others that are just as qualified) and done enough LR shooting myself... never hunting mind you, but shooting, and I stand by what I said.
There's no arguing that the 30-378 isn't a fast shooter, it obviously is. But my point was that, all things being equal (action, barrel & length, etc.), putting a 7mm bullet and a .30 cal bullet over the same amount of powder is going to net you the same results. The 7mm is going to be faster. That's not reading books, that's standard physics. I'm glad you know guys that have claimed 3,600 fps out of a 30-378. That's fantastic!

Now tell them to do the same thing with a 7mm and report the results. I'm not even arguing if a 7mm or a 30-378 is a better long range round. I'm saying if you're looking for a flatter shooting, faster round, the 7mm is going to take the cake. That's what research shows (and by extension, 'what the books say'), that's my personal experience, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's most people's opinions (you being the exception). Unfortunately, that's going to hold a lot more weight than you coming on a internet board and saying you know a guy that knows a guy that got 3,600 fps out of a 30-378. To be honest, I really couldn't care less. Classic case of being the exception and not the rule.

As far as the .338 Lapua goes, what does that have to do with anything? Honestly. Just because decided to build one on a Savage action doesn't make it right, and just because seasoned gunsmiths 'would advise against building any .338 on a Savage action' doesn't make it wrong. But I'm failing to see what the point of even bringing that up was. I've got no dog in this fight, and am perfectly fine with differences of opinion, but some of you old school guys need to realize that there isn't just one way of doing things. And that's not a knock on you or anyone, it's simply personal preference.

So if we drop a ton of bricks and a ton of bs off a tall building, ones gonna hit the ground first? Let me guess which one lol.
Personal preference is fine and I have them just like everybody else does.
But choices are one thing and facts are another. How we get the facts are yet another thing which is a big part of the issue here.
You want be needing any facts being told to you to see whats the best car on the race track, assuming of coarse were judging by performance.
And if you would like to come visit me sometime you wont need any facts on these guns either, because again seeing will be believing.
As for there being other ways of doing things, that's really not true assuming again were talking performance.
We can of coarse alter how we do things to allow for our personal choices and performance.
As the old cliché goes, we cant have the cake and eat it too. If we want to shoot rifles at very long distances for what ever reason, certain rules
will apply unless your satisfied with less than the best results it might be possible to get. I am of coarse talking here about cartridge perfofmance
and not individual performance.

[Hotolds442]

This one has about run its (off) course.

For the OP. I've found personally that the 6.5 X 284 is somewhat finicky. Developing a load that will work may take some time, if your accuracy standards are at the same level as mine. Using 7 different powders and a slew of different bullets, we finally developed a load for ours, purely by accident. That accident occurred when bullet seating was done using a 6mm comparator insert instead of a 6.5. The bullet was seated deeper and it shot well. Very well. But after another 150 rounds we're now chasing the lands and moving the bullet out farther. Throat erosion is occurring and there's not much we can do about it. I'd imagine the 6.5/06 will be worse, and can confirm that the 6.5 WSM IS worse. We will be retooling for the 260 in the near future, and will do so on a long action, specifically throated for the 142 ABLR. The 6.5 creed was our second choice, but I fell on a good supply of new Lapua 260 brass. Want a little more than the 260? Go with the 6.5x55 and fresh Lapua brass, loaded to 2016 pressure levels. You'll be happy with either of the three for years.

[yobuck]

This one has about run its (off) course.

For the OP. I've found personally that the 6.5 X 284 is somewhat finicky. Developing a load that will work may take some time, if your accuracy standards are at the same level as mine. Using 7 different powders and a slew of different bullets, we finally developed a load for ours, purely by accident. That accident occurred when bullet seating was done using a 6mm comparator insert instead of a 6.5. The bullet was seated deeper and it shot well. Very well. But after another 150 rounds we're now chasing the lands and moving the bullet out farther. Throat erosion is occurring and there's not much we can do about it. I'd imagine the 6.5/06 will be worse, and can confirm that the 6.5 WSM IS worse. We will be retooling for the 260 in the near future, and will do so on a long action, specifically throated for the 142 ABLR. The 6.5 creed was our second choice, but I fell on a good supply of new Lapua 260 brass. Want a little more than the 260? Go with the 6.5x55 and fresh Lapua brass, loaded to 2016 pressure levels. You'll be happy with either of the three for years.

Hey, I like the new logo picture. No 442 in that I'm guessing. But again I'm off topic lol.

[Hotolds442]

Hey, I like the new logo picture. No 442 in that I'm guessing. But again I'm off topic lol.

Thanks. It's my new toy. Sorta has a 442......4 liter, 4 big tires, 2 gas stations it can drive past before refueling. Lol

[yobuck]

Thanks. It's my new toy. Sorta has a 442......4 liter, 4 big tires, 2 gas stations it can drive past before refueling. Lol

Gas you burn in toys, is like the powder we use, you wanna play your gonna pay.
Is it locked up?

[Hotolds442]

Gas you burn in toys, is like the powder we use, you wanna play your gonna pay.
Is it locked up?

Rubicon Dana 44 running gear, alloy axle shafts, air lockers on both ends and rear limited slip - 4.88's and a Teraflex 4:1 t-case kit. Disc brakes f&r.
It has over 30k in receipts, paid just under a third of that. Since they don't use salt here, it's rust free.

[bw34]

This one has about run its (off) course.

For the OP. I've found personally that the 6.5 X 284 is somewhat finicky. Developing a load that will work may take some time, if your accuracy standards are at the same level as mine. Using 7 different powders and a slew of different bullets, we finally developed a load for ours, purely by accident. That accident occurred when bullet seating was done using a 6mm comparator insert instead of a 6.5. The bullet was seated deeper and it shot well. Very well. But after another 150 rounds we're now chasing the lands and moving the bullet out farther. Throat erosion is occurring and there's not much we can do about it. I'd imagine the 6.5/06 will be worse, and can confirm that the 6.5 WSM IS worse. We will be retooling for the 260 in the near future, and will do so on a long action, specifically throated for the 142 ABLR. The 6.5 creed was our second choice, but I fell on a good supply of new Lapua 260 brass. Want a little more than the 260? Go with the 6.5x55 and fresh Lapua brass, loaded to 2016 pressure levels. You'll be happy with either of the three for years.

Thank you for the reply. It helps a lot.

[Londerko]

My vote is for a 6.5x55 swede.
Relatively cheap lapua brass. Loaded at modern pressures. The swede will shoot to 1K or better with a 140gr at 2800 easy. Plenty of room on a long action mag to load those long pills way far out to the lands

[WinnieTheBoom]

Thread officially derailed

By a mod no less!

[LongRange]

Thread officially derailed

By a mod no less!

not just a mod a SUPERMOD lol.

[bw34]

Wildcat,

That was some great info. I've never heard of the 256 Newton. Sounds interesting along with the others you mentioned. I like to have something different and that's one of the things I want to do with this build. I'm not afraid of a wildcat and prefer it for this gun. I have a .270 win which I love but I want to try fire forming. Maybe I'll like it. Maybe I won't but I think I will.

I decided on the 6.5 Sherman. Very similar to the 6.5-06ai but with a little more case capacity. It really seems to be just what I was looking for:). It will take a little more time and money to get setup for but I think I would always regret not trying it. This isn't really a budget build but funds aren't unlimited either. I just want to build it the way I want for a reasonable price. I'll have a lot of satisfaction in that. The journey is half the fun.

[LongRange]

bw if you go with the sherman start a thread im interested to hear more...ive read some about it here and there...FAST from what ive read.

[bw34]

bw if you go with the sherman start a thread im interested to hear more...ive read some about it here and there...FAST from what ive read.

I will.

[Wildcat]

bw34,
As LongRange said, please keep us posted on the 6.5 Sherman build. I too have heard a little about it and I'm interested to hear more. I may have another build on the horizon. **** you bw34!

[bw34]

bw34,
As LongRange said, please keep us posted on the 6.5 Sherman build. I too have heard a little about it and I'm interested to hear more. I may have another build on the horizon. **** you bw34!

Barrel is ordered