Okay, I've been chasing accuracy for quite a while. Reloaded several hundred rounds with different charges, bullet weights, bullet types, powder, etc. Finally changed out the factory barrel with a longer varmint barrel and got better results. Now I'm trying to get down to bug holes at 100. I bought a Hornady head space gauge which is really a bump gauge and measured my new to me Lake City brass as well as my own once fired brass. I was amazed to find that case length to the shoulder was very inconsistent.
When I full length resized a few rounds I found out that I was not bumping the shoulder back at all! I loosened the lock ring on my sizing die and started to lower it 1/4 turn at a time until I got consistent measurements from the resize operation. Then I trimmed the length, and prepped the case mouth, cleaned out the flash hole from the inside with a tool and cleaned out the primer pockets. Now all of those cases are at least identical as far as exterior dimensions are concerned.
Then I decided to weigh the cases to see if there was much difference in the weight and by extension case volume. Sadly there is and it has quite a spread. I was hoping to find one weight with enough cases in the braket to allow me to load up several test rounds but that is proving to be futile. My question now is how much difference will a tenth of a grain in case weight make in accuracy? I can't think it would be much. I'll find out anyway after I've processed more brass and weighed it out into lots of case weights. Just figured I'd ask in the meantime to see if anyone has an idea.
Thanks again.
there are so many things to consider in precision reloading. case weighing would be way down the list.
I just buy lapua brass to eliminate most of the issues with the brass and there are a lot of them. Brass prep can consume you.
the dies you use, the way they are set up, the primers, how you measure your powder charges, neck tension, seating dies, seating depth it goes on and on......
reloading is lots of fun but you have a lot to learn.
+1, this response above, should be a sticky!!
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
I'm trying to pay attention to details. I have a Dillon press but still load each round one at a time. I carefully weigh out each powder charge with a balance beam scale at eye level and use a trickler to get on the money. I've measured the distance to the lands and seat my 75 gr A-max about 7 thousands off the lands. I just found out about the full length resizing problems when I bought the Hornady tool. My plan is to process more brass this week and weigh it all out and pick a bunch that is reasonably close together to see how it goes. Hopefully my chronograph will be happy and show small spreads. we will see.
Dillon makes awesome presses. but they are made for volume reloading. they just aren't as rigid as a single stage press. For precision reloading co-ax is the best but the rockchucker and many others turn out fine product. A single stage press and a quality set of Forster benchrest dies or redding dies will make a difference.Originally Posted by Idaho
1/10th of a grain wont make a big enough difference for you to notice...what IS going to make a difference is INTERNAL capacity so you need to weigh your cases with H2o...i keep all of my match cases within .5g so .2 grains high or low of my target H2o weight.
as m12lrs said there is a LOT more to precision loading....its a DEEP hole chasing accuracy and how far down you want to go is up to you LOL....also keep in mind part of the accuracy or 1 hole groups is the shooter and the rifle...if one of those are not capable then one or both need work.
also do yourself a favor and set the LC brass aside and buy some lapua...that would be a good start.
How much variance in H2O weight are you seeing with Lapua brass?
On my 260 Remington I just took an average of 10 cases to use in QuickLoad and that number was 54.85 Grains...
...
Last edited by XL105; 02-23-2016 at 04:51 PM.
Its Not the Violence that sets Men apart...
Its the Distance They are Willing to travel!
I can buy once fired Lake City 5.56 cases for .08 cents each and Lapua are .64 cents each. And Lake city cases are much harder in the base, higher quality than Remington or Winchester. At 65 years of age with chronologically gifted eyesight, the start of cataracts and drinking too much coffee, Lapua brass with laser guided bullets might be "slightly" better than Lake City brass. (but us cheap SOB have to live up to our name)
NOTE: The smaller the case the more case capacity effects chamber pressure
Once Fired Brass (where I buy all my once fired brass, cleaned, deprimed and swaged, crimp removed)
http://www.brassbombers.com/
Too much of what benchrest shooters do in case preparation with their custom rifles filters down to shooters with off the shelf factory rifles.
Below you can carry your OCD as far as you want............but for the vast majority of us it will not effect how we shoot with a factory rifle.
Preparing Cases for Long-Range Accuracy
http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...ion-case-prep/
,..
Its Not the Violence that sets Men apart...
Its the Distance They are Willing to travel!
Yobuck is a f in idiot
Its Not the Violence that sets Men apart...
Its the Distance They are Willing to travel!
Yobuck is a f in idiot
Last edited by XL105; 02-23-2016 at 05:26 PM.
Its Not the Violence that sets Men apart...
Its the Distance They are Willing to travel!
if all of this works for YOU then you should stick with it...i do things a little differently and am probably the most OCD loader on this board LOL but what i do produces tiny groups consistently.I can buy once fired Lake City 5.56 cases for .08 cents each and Lapua are .64 cents each. And Lake city cases are much harder in the base, higher quality than Remington or Winchester. At 65 years of age with chronologically gifted eyesight, the start of cataracts and drinking too much coffee, Lapua brass with laser guided bullets might be "slightly" better than Lake City brass. (but us cheap SOB have to live up to our name)
NOTE: The smaller the case the more case capacity effects chamber pressure
Once Fired Brass (where I buy all my once fired brass, cleaned, deprimed and swaged, crimp removed)
http://www.brassbombers.com/
Too much of what benchrest shooters do in case preparation with their custom rifles filters down to shooters with off the shelf factory rifles.
Below you can carry your OCD as far as you want............but for the vast majority of us it will not effect how we shoot with a factory rifle.
Preparing Cases for Long-Range Accuracy
http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...ion-case-prep/
as far as LC brass being harder or lasting longer than lapua i have to disagree there...but keep in mind i knowingly run higher pressures than most...ive shot a few pieces of(supposed)once fired LC brass...two loads at 42g of IMR4350 and the pockets would BARELY hold a primer...i have 99pcs of lapua that im about ready to retire...they have been shot in my comp rifle at 42.9g H4350 with a 140 berger hybrid and in another rifle at 45.8g H4831sc and a 142g SMK...70 pieces have been loaded 18 times and 29 pieces have been loaded 17 times and the PPs are just now starting to get loose.
i also know how MOST things effect accuracy,pressure ECT and not from reading but from actual field testing which has brought me to where i am and at this point when i have a bad day i am 99.9% it had nothing to do with my ammo or atmospheric conditions...that leaves the shooter to blame.
honestly i dont really think there is a right way or a wrong way to load...its what works for you and what results your happy with.
1.5g is the largest ES ive had with 7 lots...IMHO...to get accurate internal capacities the brass should be fire formed FL sized or fire once and neck sized and trimmed to length.
Looks like your in for a education on brass hardness.
All military Lake City and American commercially made 5.56 ammunition made for the military has the hardest brass in the base of "ANY" .223 cartridge case.
TEST RESULTS
Using Rockwell hardness standards (.062″x100kg, Rockwell “B”), the brass measured as follows:
LC 2008 = 96
Lapua 223 Match = 86
Winchester 223 = 69
Remington “R-P” = 49
How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
(my buddy CatShooter at AccurateShooter printed this information below the last time someone wanted to debate .223/5.56 brass hardness)
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...ardness-tests/
Not only is the brass harder, the flash hole web is also thicker, meaning the primer pockets last longer. Below Lake City 5.56 on the right and left and Federal .223 in the center.
Soft 5.56 brass was part of the jamming problem with the early M16 rifles and the brass has been made harder since the 1967 Congressional investigations.
Now you shouldn't have any more doubt about how well made Lake City brass is.
Signed
bigedp51 the hard ass
LMAO thanks for educating me....I'll stick to the lapua.
All I can say is, you guys are awesome. I know that I'm a newbie and have a LOT learn. In the meantime I'm having a great time. My rifle is nothing fancy. Target spring in the stock trigger and a 26 inch varmint barrel from McGowan that was installed by a good friend of mine, decent gunsmith. He bedded the action and made sure that the barrel is floating. I'm trying to pay attention to details as I become aware of them. Of course, as you well know, there is an endless list of details.
In the meantime, it is nice to know that LC brass is so well made. I figured that a single stage press would be more accurate, that is why I mentioned the Dillon because I figured that someone would confirm my suspicion on that topic. I have a set of Lee dies and realize that that too could be where some of my issues come from. One thing at a time. Right now, I'm still learning how to process my brass and what details to pay attention to.
Thanks again.
Like others I have learned some of these things the hard way. Lapua is the best, although I have found that in 223 I can find both consistency and longevity in both Winchester and Lake City Brass. But you have to do a lot more sorting. In my 260, Winchester brass works very well with the right preparation, but only lasts about 4-5 firings while Lapua seems to just keep going. I saw Forster Co AX mentioned, I got one recently and just love it. It's worth the money.
It all depends on what you are trying to do. Plinking loads, hunting loads, SHTF loads or precision loads.
Sure with a lot of work on necks, flash holes, primer pockets and a myriad of other things Lake City brass will be fine
Or buy lapua with consistent neck thickness, freshly annealed cases, no touch flash holes and primer pockets, most consistent out there in every way.
I don't understand the fixation on case weights and case capacity. there are lots more important things than that to consider.
only other brass I would consider is Norma.
Just got back from the range. Had a bit of good luck today. I was processing my brass and noticed that a ding started to show up on the beveled part of the cases. Pulled the die out found that there was a piece of metal like a ball from welding spatter that was stuck inside the case. It must have stuck to one of my cases and was pressed into the surface of the die. I could not remove it.
Not wanting to shut down I set up my neck sizing die from the set and then sized 10 cases.
With 10 cases FL resized and 10 Neck sized only I reloaded all 20 with 24.5gr of CFE223 and 75 gr A-Max bullets and headed for the range. I shot four 5 shot strings and each successive string got tighter. The final one can be covered with a dime and measures 3/8 center to center. I can't post pix here or I would show the holes next to a dime.
I think I'm making progress.
like you said "it all depends on what your trying to do".
sounds like your on the right track now.
[IMG][/IMG]
Not to be outdone by the cheap show off poster above and his little dime, there is nothing better than using mixed brass with large variation in case volume in Zombie attacks. I load these cases with a Lee powder scoop for my AR15 carbine for laying down suppressive covering fire.
P.S. It helps to have plenty of 30 round mags.
Youve got me mixed up with somebody else, i never practice. For me its just a big waste of ammo. lol
And you just cant be more relaxed about loading than i am. Ive never weighed a case and dont intend starting now.
Off the shelf full legnth dies load better than i can shoot. Especially with my factory Savages.
Im just lucky to keep finding deer that are dumb enough to stand there till i finally hit them.
My real friends never ask how many shots and i just ignore the rest.
The real question is how many deer were in the wad you were shooting at? I prefer large numbers with no gaps and the shoot up in amonkst umm approach.
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32 (New King James Version)
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