How much of a market is there for this.

[geargrinder]

I'm not saying they are worth the price, but...

FFP
56mm Objective
120 MOA elevation adjustment
5x zoom
Zero Stop
Decent glass
Exact and repeatable adjustment
Tough enough for competition and military use

All of those things and more are what make it worth the money. If you're shopping for a scope that does every one of those things the list gets pretty short and the prices get pretty high.

[barrel-nut]

I'm not saying they are worth the price, but...

FFP
56mm Objective
120 MOA elevation adjustment
5x zoom
Zero Stop
Decent glass
Exact and repeatable adjustment
Tough enough for competition and military use

All of those things and more are what make it worth the money. If you're shopping for a scope that does every one of those things the list gets pretty short and the prices get pretty high.

That last one is what really weeds out most scopes. Truth is, however, that the vast majority of us never really need a scope that tough. The precision rifle competition crowd, and wannabes thereof, will buy them.

[darkker]

I'm not saying they are worth the price, but...

FFP
56mm Objective
120 MOA elevation adjustment
5x zoom
Zero Stop
Decent glass
Exact and repeatable adjustment
Tough enough for competition and military use

All of those things and more are what make it worth the money. If you're shopping for a scope that does every one of those things the list gets pretty short and the prices get pretty high.

Except not quite.
FFP - fine, easily matched
56mm obj - Again, fine
120MOA elevation -- Ohhhh, so here is the rub. By their own spec page, it isn't 120 MOA, or they don't know how to do the math, as they list it as 34.9 mil. 34.9 mil and 120 MOA are not the same amount. They also can't seem to match the windage adjustment, that is much less.
5x zoom - Fine, again this isn't uncommon.
Zero stop - Fine, this is needed for those who don't know equipt, but as someone prefers.
Decent Glass - Again, fine, can be matched easily enough
Exact & repeatable adjustments - Again easily matched.
Tough enough for comp & military - So is a Tasco, so what?! Everyone has warranty issues, this is promotional fluff.
--Tube Diameter - To get all of this purported magic adjustment range, they had to go to a 34mm tube. Now you gotta spend some extra cheddar, to buy the not common rings!!

The Primary Arms 4-14
Has those precise & repeatable adjustments
Has FFP Matched Turret/reticle
Has a very common 30mm tube
Has BOTH 34.5 mils of Elevation and Windage
Has Glass that most others offer in $800 scopes
Mine has 1500 rounds of Creed fired, a few hundred 308, and rolled down a hill strapped to a 4-wheeler, No issues with it.

Does it have the last few pieces that the Nightforce has? Certainly not. One of those pieces being that price tag, I get almost the identical specs for only $229.
Will it last as long as the NF? Well for the price of each, it better not; or there will be some pissed NF owners.
Does it have the same quality of glass? Absolutely not, but is it worth THAT much more? I leave that to the user. I have shot NF, I don't think so personally.

This is really a discussion of Chevy Malibu Vs. Ferrari California T
Do you want to drive to the store, get groceries, take the kids to the movies, have a long lasting car, etc. Then the average schmoe doesn't buy the Ferrari for that. Now, if you got the scratch and don't mind there is a certain "air" to owning a Ferrari; then NO WAY you take the Chevy.
Neither choice is "Wrong"..... Unless you are the one short of cash.

[geargrinder]

This is really a discussion of Chevy Malibu Vs. Ferrari California T

This is the exact point I was trying to make.

The Nightforce has a combination of features that very few scope makers offer. Features that make people pay big $$$ for.

I'm happy for you that your scope does everything you need for only $229.

[darkker]

This is the exact point I was trying to make.

..Well there you have it

[yobuck]

Except not quite.
FFP - fine, easily matched
56mm obj - Again, fine
120MOA elevation -- Ohhhh, so here is the rub. By their own spec page, it isn't 120 MOA, or they don't know how to do the math, as they list it as 34.9 mil. 34.9 mil and 120 MOA are not the same amount. They also can't seem to match the windage adjustment, that is much less.
5x zoom - Fine, again this isn't uncommon.
Zero stop - Fine, this is needed for those who don't know equipt, but as someone prefers.
Decent Glass - Again, fine, can be matched easily enough
Exact & repeatable adjustments - Again easily matched.
Tough enough for comp & military - So is a Tasco, so what?! Everyone has warranty issues, this is promotional fluff.
--Tube Diameter - To get all of this purported magic adjustment range, they had to go to a 34mm tube. Now you gotta spend some extra cheddar, to buy the not common rings!!

The Primary Arms 4-14
Has those precise & repeatable adjustments
Has FFP Matched Turret/reticle
Has a very common 30mm tube
Has BOTH 34.5 mils of Elevation and Windage
Has Glass that most others offer in $800 scopes
Mine has 1500 rounds of Creed fired, a few hundred 308, and rolled down a hill strapped to a 4-wheeler, No issues with it.

Does it have the last few pieces that the Nightforce has? Certainly not. One of those pieces being that price tag, I get almost the identical specs for only $229.
Will it last as long as the NF? Well for the price of each, it better not; or there will be some pissed NF owners.
Does it have the same quality of glass? Absolutely not, but is it worth THAT much more? I leave that to the user. I have shot NF, I don't think so personally.

This is really a discussion of Chevy Malibu Vs. Ferrari California T
Do you want to drive to the store, get groceries, take the kids to the movies, have a long lasting car, etc. Then the average schmoe doesn't buy the Ferrari for that. Now, if you got the scratch and don't mind there is a certain "air" to owning a Ferrari; then NO WAY you take the Chevy.
Neither choice is "Wrong"..... Unless you are the one short of cash.

I have one question.
Where were you while the 4 wheeler was rolling down the hill?

[243LPR]

I have one question.
Where were you while the 4 wheeler was rolling down the hill?

Hopefully not strapped to the 4 wheeler also!

[yobuck]

Hopefully not strapped to the 4 wheeler also!

Exactly my point, and he woke up believing $250 scopes are better than $4000 scopes lol.
But ill be dissapointed if he dosent have a better answer than that. Besides, i know full well
it could have been a very serious mater.

[foxx]

I have one question.
Where were you while the 4 wheeler was rolling down the hill?

THe scope survived the tumble just fine, but you can see what happened to Darkker!

[Newsshooter]

Except not quite.


The Primary Arms 4-14
Has those precise & repeatable adjustments
Has FFP Matched Turret/reticle
Has a very common 30mm tube
Has BOTH 34.5 mils of Elevation and Windage
Has Glass that most others offer in $800 scopes
Mine has 1500 rounds of Creed fired, a few hundred 308, and rolled down a hill strapped to a 4-wheeler, No issues with it.

Yea, not real fond of the one I bought, make me an offer.....

[Magnumdood]

If anyone is considering buying the Nightforce "Beast" for $4200.00, add another couple of hundred dollars and buy a Tangent Theta for about $4300.00. Nightforce glass never has impressed me that much. My first long range scope was a Nightforce 5.5-22x56. At the time, Nightforce only had 3 models: the 5.5-22x56, the 8-32x56 and the 12-42x56. The 5.5-22x56 Nightforce was my first "long range" scope. Later Nightforce came out with the NXS and renamed the first three models their "Benchrest" models. I tried an 8-32x56 NXS...again, I wasn't impressed with the glass for the money I paid. I do realize that making sure the scope tracks straight, and there aren't any flat spots in the turret as it travels, and the input is repeatable, returns to zero ect...is really more important than the image the scope gives you. If you can count the legs on a fly on a cow's azz at 1000 yards because your scope resolution and contrast are so good, it does you no good if your input into the turrets isn't dead on and repeatable. Eventually I got around to Schmidt & Bender's 5-25x56, which is still the gold standard against which all other scopes are measured. Strangely enough, I have two Hensoldts for my long range guns rather than the S&Bs. Hensoldt used to be Zeiss's military division - they were when I bought my scopes. Recently Hensoldt was sold and is no longer made by Zeiss. I'll never buy another one. My next purchase will be a Schmidt&Bender 5-25x56.