http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...5774-Box-DrillOriginally Posted by pbmax84
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...5774-Box-Drill
Awesome job Dr.Thunder!
They track perfectly, and have the adjustment range that the Nightforce B.E.A.S.T. line has. That's why I think it's funny when someone says they are lower tier.
Don't like them, have something else that is brighter, great!
There is NO scope anywhere close to them that has as much adjustment, as reasonably close glass quality, matched turrets/reticle in a FFP.
Are they the second coming? Of course not!!
But a 34 Mil windage & elevation scope that passes box tests, has a 1,000G×1,000 time, FFP MIL-MIL scope is going to cost you A TON from anyone else, if they ever get you that much adjustment. (Cough,cough looking at you razor gen II, COUGH)
So see it as what it is, a great option for a great price.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
Are you saying that 113.5 MOA internal adjustment isn't enough? Or just that it's way expensive to get that? Razor Gen II's aren't cheap by any means, but I still have a decent amount of elevation available at 2k with my Lapua. Unless of course I missed your point, which is also entirely possible.
I do agree with you in saying that the PA, for all of it's offerings and price point, is hard to beat however.
[I]"In the end, run what 'ya brung because it's better than nothing and don't give two ****s what some interwebs chat board guy says about your rig."[/I]
No, you got the point. If ANYONE else offers that much BOTH windage and elevation, it will cost you your first born. Is it needed? Well for as slow as I like to run my 308, to get to a mile, yes I do :)
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
Im curious to know how much elevation is actually required to reach a mile with your 308?
My old 36" barreled 30x378 sent a 200 gr smk @ 3500 fps and at 1700 yds which was the
longest i shot it, it took 50 minits give or take depending on conditions.
As for the 338 Winnie, the chart i use has been verified by shooting to 1600 yds.
My m v with a 300 gr smk is 3200+. At 1600 (actual) is 36.5 minits, and the chart
calls for 54.5 @ 2000. I would not have the required elevation adjustment in the 8x32 Nightforce NXS
without using the reticle at that distance. Im guessing our velocity difference is roughly 350 fps?
I bought the Primary Arms medium rings, and use them with a standard 0 MOA Weaver rail on my X7.
Painless is zeroed at 100, so with today's air that means:
38.9 mils, or 133.7 moa. With the 175's at my sedate launch speed of 2550-ish. Old trick is to use the base from a round back, and stock it on Painless (flat back). Poor-man's cheap canted base
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
Thanks for that info darkker. Elevation travel was my next question. I think I have a home for one.
"Knowledge can be taught... Wisdom can only be learned."
Interestingly, when I got mine and it went out against the SWFA; mine has a bit more adjustment than stated. It isn't a bunch, but IIRC I have about a half Mil more.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
If you like the PA scope but would prefer some other reticle options then look at the Falcon Menace (SWFA). The Falcon is the same scope but with more reticle options. They have several excellent reticle options in mils & moa.
The Falcon is a little more money than the PA but with the Falcon a sun shade and caps are provided where those are extra cost options for the PA.
SWFA is the retailer for Falcon Menace in the US.
Well after reading all the good things about the PA FFP scope on here I ordered one to try, when I opened the box I heard a rattling like something is inside the scope. I assume this is not normal. Just my luck
Sucks to hear, but send it back. PA will take care of you.
I believe that was one of the main strikes against Falcon in recent years, that there CS was questionable. Helps that a big retailer like SWFA is now backing their products, but I've heard that PA is easier to trust if you had any issues with it.
[I]"In the end, run what 'ya brung because it's better than nothing and don't give two ****s what some interwebs chat board guy says about your rig."[/I]
Darkker , from all the the great things I have heard about this scope from you and others I am going to buy one for my 110. I know you have several so I thought you might know the correct scope height to get with a varmint contour and EGW 0 moa flat back mount. I plan on going with the primary arms tactical mounts also, I haven't heard much about them but the appear to be good quality.
I have the 4-14 ffp and I have a all the swfa SS fixed and I wish the PA would have finer mil dots and cross hairs like the newer SS. I like both scopes I think the swfa fixed 12 is brighter than the PA.
Fixed scopes tend to be brighter and clearer than variable scope of equal quality in my experience.
And good point about the dots. I had not realized the reticle was not a standard mil dot. How much difference that extra 0.05 mil makes can be pretty substantial at longer ranges.
Which scope is not a standard mil dot? I just got one of the Primary Arms in and cannot find anything about the subtensions.
Just got mine in the mail tonight!! They had a blem deal on Ebay for $189 , I can't see anything wrong with the scope though so ya me. Still has 3 year warranty I hope I don't need.
First impression was great out of the box. Not as Heavy as a scope as I thought from some of the info I have read, and the mil adjustments where crisp. I already love it and its not even on my gun yet.
Now I am a poor boy, so this is the best scope I have. So I can only compare to my bushnell 44 mag , and it is a great deal of an upgrade.
The PA scope has circular dots that are 0.25 mil, whereas the circular US Army dots are either 0.20 or 0.22 mil. The USMC dots are 0.25 mil long but are ovals.
The practical implications of the size mismatch if the user is using the dots as a scale are not insignificant. A 9" target will subtend 0.25 mil at 1000 yards, but the same size target will appear 0.2 mil at 1250 (and 0.22 mil at 1136 yards). I didn't make the connection until this discussion, but I remember my first trip to Rockcastle with Rosco where we had placed an 8" gong in the field. I had milled it as almost exactly 0.20 mil, the size I assumed my PA's dots to be. I did the math and calculated it to be about 1100 yards away. I dialed the corresponding elevation and completely overshot it. I spotted my miss and dialed it back down almost three whole mils. I backwards-checked the elevation and found it was only about 900 yards away. I wrote this off as overestimating the size of the plate, but really it was probably underestimating the size of the dot!
You can't beat real world experience.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Ok. I bought this scope used so I'm not sure if I'm missing any paperwork, anyone know what the measurement between the ends of the dots would be? I'm very new to mils and trying to work all of this out.
If the Primary Arms dots are .25 mil then that should leave the distance between at .75 mil right?
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
Cool, thank you.
Just to add on the "anything .308 and under" comment as far as recoil is concerned in a early post. I have had the 4-14 FFP on a unbraked 300 Weatherby for over a year, and it is flawless. Holds zero, and tracks like the day it was new. I have the BSA version which is the same scope marketed thru Midway, on a 30-06 shooting 215grain Bergers and it is flawless. So much so I'm ordering another BSA version for a Savage 7mm Rem mag. The BSA has a better "stated" warranty incase anybody was wondering.
So am I to understand that BSA and Primary Arms scopes are essentially the same scope as for quality made by the same company?
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