Try using the side wall cut from a beer can or coke can for shims. (One) piece you should be able to close your bolt (two) pieces it should not close. This is the process i have used to set head space on my rifles and they are all less than 1" group shooters.. All you need is a cheap pair of tin snips.. Hope this works for you...
Mentioned in post 21. Scissors will work on aluminum cans. Again berserker. don't get sidetracked. Establish headspace regardless of the method.Originally Posted by Bunky-Shooter
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Home from deer camp.
I measured .0985 firing pin protrusion. Wondering if I did this right, because it is so much. Set my caliper on rim of bolt, inserted rod to top of pin, and then zeroed. The measured to base of pin. About the same for my 243.
But from what I read it should be less then half of this. So I did something wrong?
Both pins are about .01 from rim of bolt.
Just realized I am not measuring firing pin, but the pin towards the outside, not the center So how do I get the pin to come out of the bolt.
You have to push the cocking piece pin out of the cocked position. Ultimately you will need to back off the BAS to aid in recocking the bolt. This requires that you do things in the correct steps to complete the bolt assembly. Otherwise you will have problems getting your gun back together. Speaking of being able to follow steps......
That brings us back to what we discussed before, follow the process. How much clearance between the bolt face and the base of the case? How many pieces of soda can or tape can you put in before the bolt will not close.
You will find that you walk right into the answer if you follow a process.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I don't care for your method to be honest. I had to pry out a number from you on what was to much. Just adding until you can't close anymore, without a preset number before you start, is not good trouble shooting IMO. I realize this probably pisses you off. I do appreciate the help.
I ordered a no gauge. While waiting for it to get here, will take bolt apart to clean. Gun is 09, I bought in 2014, looked new. Maybe oil has hardened.
It doesn't piss me off. I watched you jump around back and forth from the inception of this thread with no clear path and no solution. I gave you options to teach you so you were not dependent on others to help you fix things.
You doubt the process because I wont answer the question for you. You are not at the mechanical level to figure out some pretty basic things. (Not a sin)
If you want to rely on people you don't know and whose level of knowledge are not clear that is up to you.
My plan was to teach you and help you fix it through your expanded knowledge and understanding of your rifle. (Give a man a fish and feed him for a day teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime kind of thing. Clearly you want to be fed.
That hurts you Berserker, not me. I can walk away and fix anything on almost anything I own. I spend a lot more time on this forum helping others, not asking for help.
Have you noticed no one has posted that I was sending you down the wrong path? Just something to think about. PM me if you change your mind about my help. I will let others take it from here. No hard feelings.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I have built engines. The manuals have service limits, end play, gear lash. Acceptable ranges. Without these it is useless to measure anything. Hand loading, has dimmensions. Modern loaders don't just pick a powder and start with some powder, and keep adding until the case is stuck, or worse.
It teaches me nothing, to know that my gun will close on 4 pieces of tape but not 5.
When I got back from deer camp, I got out my calipers. I found range on a sticky on technical section on this forum. But I didn't realize how to get the firing pin to protrude.
I miss read you. My apologies. With experience like that looking up headspace limits and checking them is a cake walk. Same goes for identifying the ejector and the firing pin. LOL. Couldn't help myself. Hey man, good luck with this. You got it now.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Berserk, you are making things far too difficult for yourself and Robinhood.
Add a piece of tape to the base of the flippin cartridge, trim it around the edges and see if the bolt will close.
If the bolt closes, add another flippin piece of tape and see if it closes again (not too much force).
If it closes again, try another piece of tape.
Repeat this process untill it stops closing with normal pressure.
Report back to us. I am betting it will not close with two pieces of tape.
If it closes with three or more, you most certainly have, minimally, a head space problem.
If you aren't willing to follow these basic instructions for some basic trouble shooting, takethe rifle to a competent gun smith and let him figure it out.
I wasn't sure about Robinhood. He said try one piece of tape and see if it closes. Like I said, unless you start with limit, there is no point in measuring. Even when you say it will probably not close with 2, but if closes with 3 you have a problem, is a little loosey goosey for me. But I get it you are using tape, and don't really know. I am a mechanical guy who likes numbers. I realize this is some home test.
Though even with gauges you have no go, go, and field gauge.
Plus I was at camp with a very dull pair of scissors.
While comparing to my 243, I noticed the bolt on my 243 needs some kind of special tool to take apart. Looks like a tamper resistant hex, sort of.
Took bolt apart, didn't seemed gummed up inside. I pushed firing pin, and measured .0570 protrusion.
Squeeze the trigger then try the hex key again.Looks like a tamper resistant hex, sort of.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Thanks.
1/4 inch allen wrench.
You are missing the point on head space. All we need to know is how many pieces of tape it takes to get YOUR bolt handle to NOT close. There is NO NEED for anything more specific or technical at this point.
Regardless, I am going to bow out at this point and recommend you take your rifle to a professional and competent gun smith and let him inspect it.
Sorry if using a gauge, rather then tape, isn't technical enough for you. Depending on how long it takes to get here, I may try a 2nd piece of tape.
It's akin to the guy who goes to a doctor for an exam and refuses to turn his head and cough.
If you won't do that, then you don't really want help.
Robinhood and I and our troubleshooting techniques/suggestions/advice are not the problem here. He is trying to help you. There are literally 100's of others on this site who know and understand EXACTLY what, how and why he is suggesting you add a piece of tape to the back of the case and attempt to close the bolt handle, adding one more piece until it no longer closes with normal force. It is not a dangerous or unprofessional or questionable technique. It is a sound diagnostic/troubleshooting technique used and endorsed by ANYONE qualified to assist you. Whether a different technique might also work is not the issue. There are MANY ways to determine whether you have, among other issues, a head space problem.
Your reluctance to follow thru with advice here and the excuses you use to NOT cooperate is causing me and possibly EVERYONE else to suspect you are either not capable of performing any kind of service on your rifle or simply trying to create the appearance of problems with your rifle that, in actuality do not exist. WHY anyone would want to do such a thing is beyond me.
Hhhhhuuummmmmmmmmmmm. Hhhhuuuuuuuummmmmmmm.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
deleted
Unnecessary comment on my part.
Deer season in another state. Building a blind, that I should have built 6 months ago. Might still go with ladder stand. I like to use these guns. Muzzle loader now. So far that has been more reliable, especially with 209 conversion.
no go gauge is in transit.
I have lightened trigger pull on many Ruger handguns, GP100 and Super Redhawk both have dual springs for adjusting single and double action. If you install a spring to light on the hammer it can have misfires every so often, not always and not with all brand primers.(wish Ruger would offer a lighter weight Hammers to increase hammer speed as this would help out with misfires and lock time) Too light of a trigger spring has other issues with return speed when used in Double action pull. So the firing pin in the bolt hanging up because of dirt, weak or broken spring, improper lubrication etc. can cause the primer not to detonate when struck as well as pin protrusion to little misfires to much and primers puncture causing a whole world of hurt. Head space being to great as stated will cause a similar problem to not enough pin protrusion and if too great will again like punctured primers can cause a whole world of hurt. I liked your simple go no go method using the tape, using a correct Saami Spec. cartridge for the go gauge and the layers of tape to check approximate head spacing. (simple can be so beautiful sometimes) Each layer of tape telling you how many thousandths over. Of coarse if it showed to be suspect to too great of head space you should buy a set of go no go gauges or make your own if you have access to a metal lathe, using Saami specs.
As far as the original concern about the Trigger the design is not a flaw it is a safety and miss fires from not pulling correctly is just what it should do, the center safety trigger has to be depressed before the actual trigger is pulled preventing accidental discharge. I personally don't know how I would like that for me, but would want it for a Rifle I was letting my grandchildren use who although have went through Hunter Safety, lack experience.
I read somewhere else that the trigger if not set up properly can cause drag on the firing pin slowing it down causing miss fires as well. Not sure if it was in one of your posts or at another site, you could Google it.
Yes trouble shooting is a step by step elimination of the most obvious or simplest, eliminating the possibles one by one until the problem rears it's ugly head. Never give up man built it man can fix it.
The more I check into these Savage Rifles the more I really like their features. I will be getting a used one in the 110 to 116 range long action (installing a large bolt face unless I find one with the large face already like a 7mm mag or 300 mag) and building a rifle for Long Range, my choice will be a barrel burner because of overbore issues with throat erosion but I will deal with barrel changes every 1000 rounds if I have to. No I am not going to go beyond SAAMI specs for pressure, but it is going to be a 26 Nosler and shorter barrel life will be what it is "que sera sera"
This thread was a much better read than my first, you are all restoring my faith in humanity.
I did measure trigger pull it was around 4lbs.
After this I want to buy or build a heavy/medium barrel 30-06. I also buy used guns, so I don't mind buying the gauge.
The bolt is apart right now, want to get some lube, LSP1, before I put it back together. I was going to yesterday, but didn't make it.
They tell about the trigger interfering with the firing pin speed.
These were all off a rest and bench, practicing. Not say I didn't screw up pull. I have considered removing the safety blade, to prevent a misfire in a rush when big one is front of me. Especially after reading about it happening on here. I do like it when I have time, it helps set up and time the trigger pull.
Members who have read this thread in the last 1 days: 0
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks