Model 12 VLP 243 Win.

[persico]

Hey Guy's,

I'm new to this forum but I was wondering if anyone is shooting 87 grain Vmax's in their Model 12 (.243) 1.925 twist. If so what kind of success have you had. I've tried Varget but didn't have much luck. I played with seating depth, primers, etc.. but no luck. I have some IMR 4064 I was going to try next. I'd appreciate any input. Thanks again!!!

[hailstone]

Try 95 grain Nosler BT's with IMR4350 powder.

[jimbo88mm]

I am currently working with 87gr Vmaxs on my Stevens 200 with the same twist. Currently Varget is all I have. Based on my reading varget is less then ideal for this bullet and I do plan on picking up some H4350. That said, I've been playing with charges of 34gr, 34.5, 35, and 35.5.

It's getting warm down here in Texas and my skinny barrel heats up very quickly. I have gone from 5 shot groups to 4 shot groups and now 3 shot groups. Here are a couple of groups from 100 yards:

[img width=600 height=450]http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz219/Jimbo88mm/87gVmax.jpg[/img]

the 34gr 5 shot group looks pretty good. That flier was a shot I pulled. I knew that one was bad before I even checked it through the scope. The bottom one that looks like a 3 shot group is actually a 4 shot group.

What charges have you tried?

[Slowpoke Slim]

I have a Shaw barreled 243. The best group it's fired has been the 87 gr Vmax and IMR 4350. It wasn't a great group, 5 shots at just under an inch, but it's the best group shot from that barrel. I used Fed match primers also.

[bluealtered]

mines a model 11, and the average group with varget is in the 1" size. iv'e done better with imr4320. I have been rethinking my .243 varget use, after i run through the batch i have made up i will step back a grain, i want to get the pressure down just a bit. That should tighten up the group a bit. blue

[persico]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I'd really like to shoot the 87 grain vmax due to its high B.C. It's good to hear that I'm not the only one that Varget hasn't worked for. Jimbo88m, I've tried 36.0 up to 37.2 in .3 rain increments and I'm getting groups similar to yours (always one flyer on 3 shot group?) I did load some 80 gr Nosler BT behind 41.0 grains of IMR 4064 (win.brass, cci BR2 pmimer 2.700 COL) that shot in the .3-.4 range consistently. The weird thing was I think it shot better with my Harris bi-pod and rear sandbag than it did with a front/rear sand bag. I think part of the problem may be that the gun is canting slightly while on the front sandbag from shot to shot but I'll have to experiment more. I don't want to spend the money on a high dollar front rest right now, so if the bi-pod continues to shoot well I'll probably stick with that. I shoot a lot of woodchucks and that's what I use in the field anyway. I'd also like to use the Hodgdon extreme line of powders for their ability to work well in all tempatures. That's why I tried Varget originally. I've been reloading for over fifteen years but never used anything but IMR powders. I guess it's time for more testing. Again if anyone else is shooting the 87gr vmax and having good luck, please feel free to chime in. Thanks again!!

[desertcj]

I just got the same rifle and although I haven't shot it yet, I am planning on shooting heavier bullets only with it(90grain-105grain). The 87grain V-max also made my list for varmint duty when/if I get around to it because I'm working on a game load first but, I was planning on trying H4350 and H4831SC with the 87grn v-max FWIW.

[bootsmcguire]

I have had good luck with 87gr V-Max with Reloder 15.

[desertdog]

I have a Shaw barreled 243. The best group it's fired has been the 87 gr Vmax and IMR 4350. It wasn't a great group, 5 shots at just under an inch, but it's the best group shot from that barrel. I used Fed match primers also.

shot gun!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did you say? lol!! imr 4064.

[Deserthunter]

The H-4831SC has done very well with a 22" light barrel shooting a .45"and 47" group last time out with it.... I seem to get better results with the Nosler 55gr and Sierra 70gr than the 85gr'ers..... Even the 100gr Sierra (wife's deer load) shoot under an inch with H-4831 and nowdays SC... (edit, I got looking at the loads for the light 55gr and 70gr. I used, for the most part, H-4895 on them) but 4831 was the best powder I've used for the heavy bullets, seems to get higher velocity with less pressure and report.....

[persico]

Great information guys, keep it coming.... Thanks again.

[persico]

I have had good luck with 87gr V-Max with Reloder 15.

Care to share any more gun/load details? Thanks again.

[persico]

Here's a picture of a typical IMR4064 3 shot group. The other shots in the photo are sight in shots. My camera stinks but I think you can make out the penny in the picture. Group size was .376" using a short Harris bi-pod and rear leather sand bag. I've listed the load details below. I'll also try to post some of my Varget/87 gr vmax loads when I get a chance (They're not as pretty). Thanks...

Rifle : Savage Model 12 VLP DBM
IMR4064 - 41.0 gr. (MAX LOAD)
Nosler 80 BT Varmint bullet
Fully prepped Win. brass
CCI BR2 Primer
COL - 2.700

[img width=600 height=450]http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o49/jims91notch/IMR4064.jpg[/img]

[bootsmcguire]

Care to share any more gun/load details? Thanks again.

Sure can. I am shooting a Savage 10 Sporter, with Accutrigger, 1:9.25 twist on a 22" Savage barrel. I bought it used from a gentleman that just had to have an AR15 and decided this was the one to go to fund his new toy. He had fired less the 60 shots through it if I recall right, had he not told me that he had fired it I would have assumed it was new. Absolutely flawless. Even came in the high luster blue. Anyway....

I got some 87gr. Vmax's because the BC was so high, and I had great luck with RL15 in 22-250, 223, and 30-30 so I figured it was a good place to start. With bullet seated to touch the rifling, over 34.0gr of RL15 and Fed. LR primer my last 100yd group measured .5 center to center for 5 shots. I haven't tried another charge weight yet, but I was happy with that for a start ;D . I need to get that gun back to the range, but I have spent a lot of my time with my 12FV 22-250 practicing for an upcomming Varmint Shoot Competition I want to try at, never competed in any shoot before so I don't want fumble to bad my first time out.
I seem to favor the lighter loads with RL15, usually ending up just over my book's starting loads. In my sporter guns I think the recoil is more detrimental to me than what accuracy I gain with a hotter load. Probably just my shooting technique. But I'm young and got plenty of time to practice .

[bobcat30]

Whats the major difference between IMR4350 and H4350 as i am loading 95 gr combine tech was gonna try reloader22 as i have it on hand . But i see alot of you guys using IMr and H 4350?

[persico]

Thanks Boots, I'll have to give RL15 a try.....

[persico]

I had a chance to try some H 414 today (44.0 gr.) with the 87 gr Vmax. Got about the same results as I did with varget with the average group in the .8" inch range. I wanted to try IMR 4064 but didn't have the time.
I also shot my favorite load again (80 Nos. BT/ 41.0 gr. IMR 4064) and it shot very well (avg. 3 shot group in the .4's. The conditions were not the greatest either (sunny and windy) but it's a pleasant round to shoot with not as much recoil as the heavier bullets. I also bagged five sod monkeys so I was pretty happy. I think I may stick with this load for now. As a side note I was getting some high pressure signs with 41.0 grains (bolt lift was heavy) so I may drop down a half grain or so and see if this helps? Thanks again to everyone for their replies!!!

[rcinit]

I just returned from a trip from South Dakota or I would've replied sooner. I've had good luck with IMR4064 w/Remington cases and winchester primers in my Model 12 VLP 243 Win. I've shot some .20 5rd groups but mostly average around .5 or so, if I throw out 1 round from a 5 shot group. I always seem to have one flyer. I know it's me and not the gun. I've shot IMR 4064 loads anywhere from 30.1-36.7. The hotter loads were more accurate in the wind, however like someone else mentioned it's getting hot down here in Texas. Even though the7th edition book showed a imr4064 load would be below 3100 fps it was in fact around 3200fps with high pressure signs on the cases. I kept backing the load down till I was shooting at 2900 fps over the chronograph. However this same 34.1 load, came out at 2815 average in South Dakota when I went on Vacation. Just goes to show you how weather condition play a big part in load development. Still I was shooting between .5-.75 off a straw bales on the back of a pickup truck vs table with sand bags @ 100meters.

I ended up .015 off the lands measure from the ogive.

[persico]

No problem, I appreciate the information. I'll have to give the 4064 a try next time I'm testing. I have to say though, I'm really impressed with the way the 80 Nos. BT are shooting as well as the noticeably less recoil. I wouldn't have thought there would have been that big a difference (7 gr. bullet weight) but you can definately feel it. I'd really like to compare both bullets at long range and see how they stack up.
Again the only load I've had shoot similar groups (to the Noslers) was believe it or not Federal Premium factory loads in 70 gr. nosler BT. I've had more than several groups in the .3 range with these. I did discover one issue recently that appeared to help somewhat and that was not having my action screws tight enough. I still need to get an accurate inch pound torque wrench on them but snugging them up a little bit seem to help. Any suggestions on torque? Thanks again I'll keep you posted....

[GabbyM]

RL #17 will give a 243 fast loads with that weight range bullet.

[sparky123321]

Give VV560 a try. It's expensive and sometimes hard to find, but I was getting 1/4-1/2 MOA out of a Douglas Air-Gauged 8" twist using Berger 95gr VLD's. I took a prairie dog at 762 yards(confirmed) with that load. When I couldn't find VV560 I gave H414 a try and had very good results with it as well, almost as good as the VV560. Your 9" twist might be a little too slow for the Berger 95gr VLD's though. I'd like to know how you are measuring/weighing your powder charges and what type of dies you are using? Also, how are you prepping your brass? Are you turning the necks, deburring the flash holes and reaming the primer pockets? Consistency is the most important part of reloading. I was using Wilson neck and seating dies with an arbor press and weighing my charges to + or - 0.02 grains on a scientific scale. Yes 0.02 grains, not 0.2 grains.

[persico]

Sparky, I've shot bullets up to 100 grains and it shoots as well or better than the lighter bullets. I've also had other .243's with 1.925 twist and they all shot just about any bullet you fed them as long as you fine tuned the combination. I do mostly varmint hunting and prefer the varmint weight bullets. The hold over on shots is also quite a bit less than the heavier bullets. I have to admit, I'm not much for adjusting my scope elevation knob every time I have to make a shot, something that becomes a necessity when shooting a heavier bullet at small targets (I also don't have the money for mil dot scope right now). After doing some research I've discovered that the 80 Nosler and the 87 vmax are both capable of 600 plus yard shots and that's about all I need where I shoot.
As far as case prepping I do everything but neck turning. I know several benchrest guy's who do it but all of them say it's more habit than anything else and when compared to their prepped cases without neck turning it offers virtually no advantage and can actually hurt accuracy if not performed correctly. I've tried it in the past with my 220 swift and was not impressed with the results. Again if your having luck with it I'd stick with it. Currently I use mostly RCBS equipment and trickle charge all of my loads to final weight but that's about as ambitious as I get when it comes to fine tuning. Thanks again guys!!!

[sparky123321]

I appreciate your comments and perspective. Berger VLD bullets aren't like many other bullets. Due to their shape they actually have less bearing surface in contact with the lands and grooves compared to other bullets of the same weight and tend to require a faster twist. Match Kings are close though. I also preferred lighter and faster bullets until heading out West for my first long range varmint shoot(750+ yards). Within reason, I'll take a heavier bullet every day when shooting 500-1000 yards. Holdover is easy to calculate and very repeatable. Down range velocity/energy loss and wind drift are much more important and have a much greater affect on your point of impact, at least in my opinion. Heavier bullets, especially those with a high ballistic coefficient, perform much better at long ranges, even in mild crosswinds. RCBS is O.K., but you'd be much be better off with either Wilson or Redding Match dies at least for your bullet seater. Any seater die that fully supports your case before the bullet is seated will work well for you. I will continue to turn the necks on all of my long range rounds. Consistent neck tension all the way around the bullet along with concentricity are critical for unsurpassed accuracy. If you use Norma or Lapua brass you can probably get away without turning the necks, but it's a good practice to at least clean them up with a high quality neck turner. If you've ever turned the necks on some of the other brass out there with a high quality turner like Sinclair's you will see immediately how inconsistent neck thicknesses can be. Honestly though, most of my comments are moot if you are shooting less than say 400 yards. These practices and recommendations will absolutely improve your groups at any range, but it's just not as noticeable at shorter distances. Good shooting to you!

[persico]

Well said.....Thanks again!