Reply With QuoteComparing the to the 208 AMAX, which has a more secant shape, the new 212 ELD-X appears to have a more tangent ogive so it should do ok for a jump. No official word on it yet but I will ask.Originally Posted by Londerko
Seen the videos and they look pretty sweet. Would they be more accurate then an FMJ for long distance shooting???? Just wondering
Comparing the to the 208 AMAX, which has a more secant shape, the new 212 ELD-X appears to have a more tangent ogive so it should do ok for a jump. No official word on it yet but I will ask.
No there isn't a plan to have the .223 bullets changed as the proportional effects of the BC change was in the higher BC bullets over about .5. The lower BC bullets didn't see as much, if any, effects.
Usually FMJ bullets aren't used for long range accuracy. Usually it's the BTHP design but with the new tip helping keep the BC up the new ELD line should have no problems being as accurate at long range. I have shot the AMAX for many years and they were always accurate for me. It wasn't so much the accuracy that was being effected but the tip deformation but the BC itself effecting trajectory and wind resistance.
Well took the .308 rounds I loaded up with the 212s today. Started at 208 AMAX starting load of 38.1, then 38.6 and 39grns of Varget. Figured no higher until I saw if there was any pressure. No pressure in any of them. Accuracy wasn't great at 1-1.5 MOA but I didn't expect bugholes at the cooler temps, low velocities and 11 twist when a 10 twist is recommended. The groups did get smaller as powder charge went up so I am speculating I was on the very edge of stabilizing the bullets with speed and temp. Velocity averages were:
38.1- 2250fps
38.6- 2285fps
39- 2312fps
I was pleased with the velocities from a 20" barrel. I am planning on loading up some more tomorrow with higher powder charges and see if the groups get smaller. Will keep you updated.
I should be getting some 140 ELD-Ms for the 6.5 Creedmoor in the next couple weeks to test as well so I will update with those results when I get them in and loaded.
Well went back out today with some of the 212 loads in the .308. Temperature dropped about 20 degrees from the last range trip so even though the velocities went up to just under 2400fps I am fighting a losing battle with those bullets in a 11 twist, short barreled .308 so the rest are getting shelved until the magnum is up and running.
The UPS man delivered some of the 6.5mm 140 ELD-M bullets today. Did a little measuring and they are about the same OAL as the 140 AMAX within a couple thousandths. The base to ogive length on the comparator was .005 longer on the ELD-M than the AMAX so basically 140 AMAX OALs of loaded ammo should be very close and still allow easily magazine length ammo. In person it appears the ogive is slightly more secant than the AMAX and you can see it a little in the picture below.
Now I have to find some time to load these up.
I am very intrigued by these...with the hope of all around bullet. They will be the first bullet I work up in my new 300wm bear hunter
they look more like a hybrid...im going to have to try some when they are a little easier to find.
Ya! The 212 looks awesome. But I'm particularly excited about the 200gr in my new 300wm. It has the same BC as a 210 VLD, but I should be able to hit 3000 fps no problem.
3K + .626 BC = epic long range medicine
keep us posted on this...Winne The Boom has me thinking about putting my 300 back together.
Will do! My new barrel is a 27" X-caliber blank, so I should be able to get pretty decent velocity with the 212, but I have my eye on hitting 3K with that 200
I'd like to see if I can rechamber a factory 24" 7mm Rem to 7mm-300 and get 2950-3000 out the 175 eld-x up to 180 vld's that would be nirvana for 500 yard hunting.
160's just too limiting at that range by the time ya get 1 all ya see is cross body shots for 2-3. Can't even consider taking those shots. 175gr cor-lokts always do well but have the bc of a football at that distance.
High bc 175-180gr bullets at 2950-3050 would be a real game changer for me. 7828 gets me around 2900 with 175 pspcl's so figure 3050-3100 is realistic with another 10gr of powder out of a 24" barrel. Figure h1000 will be first choice. But in a pinch even surplus powders should work.
Then if I like the cartridge can consider that 26" fluted Bartlien I've been drooling over.
FYI:
The 30 cal 200 ELD-X are in stock at midway. I ordered a box 1 hour ago and they have already shipped
Yup the 140 ELD-M were out at Midway too but sold out already. The new bullets are hitting the market. Just need to keep an eye out for them.
Here are a couple targets with gross powder adjustments that I loaded up with the 140 ELD-Ms in my Creedmoor to just get an idea of velocity and accuracy potential. The one round at the top was a single chrono number and then a 4 shot group. Loaded them at both 2.810" and .020" off the lands. Going to go up more for the powder charge as I think there will be better accuracy around 43grns.
The 2.810" seemed to open as I got higher in powder charge but there might be another node higher. I will look for it.
The .020" started to tighten as powder charge went up. The OAL for these was 2.850" so they still easily fit in mags.
Rob i bet between 42.7 and 43.3 at .020 off is going to be your load...seeing your results with the 140s is really making me want to try the 143s...nice shooting.
Thanks. My 140 AMAX load was 43.5grns at .020" off. I just started lower to see what they would do. I am definitely going higher.
I got some of the 143 ELD-X on Friday. I will try and get some loaded up but figured I will post a pic and give some measurements for you guys. Base to ogive is .740" and OAL of the bullet is 1.435". A little longer than the 140 AMAX or ELD-M (L-R).
Where did you find them at?I got some of the 143 ELD-X on Friday. I will try and get some loaded up but figured I will post a pic and give some measurements for you guys. Base to ogive is .740" and OAL of the bullet is 1.435". A little longer than the 140 AMAX or ELD-M (L-R).
Precision Reloading had them the other day but you need to buy a lot of them to justify the shipping cost.
I got mine from Hornady but as mentioned they are shipping and out at stores now. They do sell out fast though so if you want them then buy them if you see them.
Looking at the stats for 7mm/284 ELD-X bullets...
175gr lists sd=.268
162gr sd=.287
How is that possible?
180gr VLD comes in at .319 just over the mythical/magical .300
Nice picture, Rob. Looks like they changed the profile a bit too, in addition to a new tip material. Wonder if the new tip by itself didn't have the effect they were looking for, so they redesigned it for a longer, slimmer profile. I guess we'll never know how much the B.C. improvement is related to tip material and now much is profile/aspect ratio related.
Thinking about it a little, and based upon my knowledge of aircraft, the tip of a bullet thats going Mach 3 has to be seeing temps of at least 500 degrees F albeit very briefly. I wonder what kind of thermoset plastic can withstand that kind of temperature AND be moldable too?
Any physicists in the group that want to chime in?
Grafs also had some.
Bruce
Holy Crap!!
Actually you do know how much the new tip alone changed things. They tested the old AMAX with the old tip and new tip and the old tip BC average to 800 yards was around .545 and with just the new tip it was at .588, which is where it should be from their old 200 yard testing and what the AMAX was listed as on their page. So the tip did make a difference alone but the new ELD line was redesigned as well to raise the BC more.Nice picture, Rob. Looks like they changed the profile a bit too, in addition to a new tip material. Wonder if the new tip by itself didn't have the effect they were looking for, so they redesigned it for a longer, slimmer profile. I guess we'll never know how much the B.C. improvement is related to tip material and now much is profile/aspect ratio related.
Thinking about it a little, and based upon my knowledge of aircraft, the tip of a bullet thats going Mach 3 has to be seeing temps of at least 500 degrees F albeit very briefly. I wonder what kind of thermoset plastic can withstand that kind of temperature AND be moldable too?
Any physicists in the group that want to chime in?
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