In the short time Ive owned and used my LRP in 260, Ive realized just how accurate and consistant it is (after load development) from 100 out to 1200.
The only difference that I see between the cm and the 260rem calibers is case dimension.
Besides the fact that you can get your chamber cut to what ever specs you so desire on both calibers,and there both .264 diam 6.5mm, what is the advantage of a Creedmore as opposed to a 260 Rem?.
Is the difference in case dimension the means for improved accuracy?
Life is tuff.....its even tuffer when your stupid
{John Wayne}
While the 260 (of which i am a fan) has a slight edge in velocity the only real life differences are the creed can have longer bullets hanging farther out of the case and still run in a short action due to it being a shorter case.
Reason 2 is the creedmoor has ammo that is cheaper if you go the factory ammo route.
If you were to run them both on a long action then the 260 gets the decided edge due to case capacity.
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32 (New King James Version)
WOW Earl, you almost sound like you know what you are talking about.
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
I find that with a 260 that with SMK 142's and 139 Scenars I can load them to 2.900 easily. My mags will go 2.960 if I needed to.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
^ +1 ^ ... But, I don't use the mag anyway. :-)
Id take a 260 over a CM any day for the reasons stated above and because of brass...your all ready tooled up for the 260 eddie now just have a barrel chambered right and your set.
Having had both I'm back with the 6.5x55. Nostalgia is hard to overcome as well as the "if it ain't broke" thing.
Well i did stay at a Motel 6 one time.Originally Posted by scope eye
WOW Earl, you almost sound like you know what you are talking about.
Dean
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32 (New King James Version)
Being able to run long bullets at mag length, without killing powder capacity while in a short action. Second is the fact that there are several choices of good hunting AND match ammo available for the Creedmoor.
Don't think match ammo was ever available for the 260, but Remington is world famous for being able to screw-up a wet dream....
If anyone throws the "quality brass" argument out there, I'll remind the court of 2 things. 1) Federal and there seemingly endless stream of soft headed 308 cases. 2) they don't Pressure test, or understand Pressure/velocity. So running wildly over Pressure, but " hey it didn't blow-up " is the definition of quality brass.
One has, for all intents and purposes, zero factory ammo support. The other has quality ammo for anything you may want to do, covering the full range of bullet weights. Which of these choices "sounds" more intelligent? That is really the question, because there isn't a nickels worth of difference besides.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
So you don't consider Lapua to be quality brass?
Heck even Nosler makes brass for the .260 Now. It's not Lapua but it's pretty good stuff. I have never understood why the Creedmoor ever came into existence, If you need the .260 to fit the mag length seat the bullet deeper it's not that big of a deal. Yeah you loose case capacity but you do that too by making a shorter case. The Creed and the .260 with a bullet seated at 2.800" over all length = the same darn thing. I have nothing but great and wonderful things to say about 6.5's but the Creed is one I never really understood all the hoop la and popularity of.
I don't think that because you can over-load it pressure wise that it should be given God-like status.
Since a VERY long time ago, when Olin published 30-06 case alloy details; no one knows what specs brass is built to. So as an example. If Lapua brass can take 75,000 psi, but the Hornady only survived 73,000; and we are talking about a SAAMI cartridge of 62,000 psi, some say it isn't "quality"?
There were only 2 members here I knew that actually had and use a Pressure Trace, unfortunately one has past away; the other I test with.
Hornady brass gets crap for "lose primer pockets", the 6.5 gods who complain also don't Pressure test, and typically think velocity and issue aren't connected.
So my grow is about unfair comparisons based on ignorance.
My inferior quality Hornady Creed brass has 15 reloads with no pocket failures. But I also don't pretend it's a 264 WM. So to me, the difference in Hornady brass and Lapua, is about $60.
And unless they changed plans at Silver State, Nosler 260 brass is like the rest. Norma brass stamped as Nosler.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
I agree. Had the same experience with the Hornady CM brass....never had a problem with it.My inferior quality Hornady Creed brass has 15 reloads with no pocket failures.
That is why all brass cases should come with small primer pockets, so when they start falling out you can drill them out to large size primer pockets and double the life. I have done this with 308 Palma brass and a few others and it worked out fine.
Dean
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
lapua is VERY good brass but trust me it can be over pressured...I lost 9 pcs of brand new outta the box lapua when fire forming in that 30" barrel I had.
Is there a rifle brass can't be over pressured?
I have a model 16, 22" pencil barrel 260 so I'm not looking at loading it to the max. My rifle was bought to deer hunt and I knew going in I'd be loading for it, I have the equipment so no biggie. My line of thought was that I could use 243 or 308 brass if 260 wasn't available. I haven't seen any 6.5 CM on the shelves at my LGS or GM, 260 on the other hand is there on and off.
I bought this rifle after having shoulder surgery and can't take many doses of my model 70 in 30-06. Honestly I don't think 95% of the folks that buy them will notice any differences in the two. Which one is the best? The one you have in you hand I suppose. Your mileage may vary.
Last edited by justinp61; 09-13-2015 at 10:25 AM.
Where do you get this wild, crazy idea that people are over-pressuring their brass? Who would be so foolish and ignorant? Surely no one here!
Exhibit A
At no time was this .204 Ruger case exposed to excessive pressure. Nope, never...so help me Joe Pesci!
This was actually a case of an overload due to a partial charge hanging up in the powder measure that I didn't catch.
No Savage's were destroyed in the making of this .204 Ruger Belted Magnum - only the ejector spring needed replacing.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
no there isn't but some brass will take over pressure better than others and the biggest part is some brass is more consistent than other brass...and I agree about the 2 its what you want or like to shoot because as stated there is no big ballistic advantage if loaded the same.
when I built my 260 I looked at several chamberings before deciding and it boiled down to the CM and the Remington...I personally went 260 because of brass choices...also like I said Eddie is tooled up for the 260 so why change as he don't shoot factory ammo.
6.5 CM was originally designed to run in a gas gun, thus the slightly shorter overall length vs the .260. Both work well, match quality factory ammo is cheaper for the 6.5. Local shop usually has 120 gr CM on the shelf, don't think I've seen any 140's. I've bought all my factory ammo online as it is significantly cheaper there too. I reload now and haven't had any issues with the brass. Ballistically similar, I'd shoot whichever you're set up for already.
I do that now with my Creedmoor. Trim parent cases to Creed length, FL size, check trim length and done. But I understand the point.
from the quote below
I do agree with this. However far too many don't test things equally. How many times will you see someone talk about weighing brass by volume? Weight and volume are not the same, there is no single recipe to making brass alloys, and no one could answer about volume variations on a given production run from a factory anyway? The assumption by most, is that if you load "the same" load in different brass that somehow pressures are identical; and typically are loading extruded powder by weight not volume.
So don't know how far over Pressure they are, but if they change something but pretend it's the same, if the brass suffers it is inferior quality....
Does Lapua make good brass? I'm sure they do. Does Hornady have poor brass quality? No they do not.
For anyone out there in TV Land who is curious. When Pressure testing the Creedmoor last fall, we found that for every 75-100 fps increased, you will add 10-15,000 psi.
With 140's the Creedmoor SAAMI's at about 2700 fps. So anyone who rambles on about how they are pushing them to 2,900-3,000 fps. "With no pressures"; is a bloody fool.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
I agree with you 100% about volume of brass and have done field testing with nosler,federal and Winchester...I don't have the equipment that you have but I can tell you that with the same charge weight with the three cases in a 300wm the nosler brass was fine but still over pressure according to the chrony...federal had flat primers and was quite a bit faster and the Winchester blew primers out of the pockets.I do that now with my Creedmoor. Trim parent cases to Creed length, FL size, check trim length and done. But I understand the point.
I do agree with this. However far too many don't test things equally. How many times will you see someone talk about weighing brass by volume? Weight and volume are not the same, there is no single recipe to making brass alloys, and no one could answer about volume variations on a given production run from a factory anyway? The assumption by most, is that if you load "the same" load in different brass that somehow pressures are identical; and typically are loading extruded powder by weight not volume.
So don't know how far over Pressure they are, but if they change something but pretend it's the same, if the brass suffers it is inferior quality....
Does Lapua make good brass? I'm sure they do. Does Hornady have poor brass quality? No they do not.
For anyone out there in TV Land who is curious. When Pressure testing the Creedmoor last fall, we found that for every 75-100 fps increased, you will add 10-15,000 psi.
With 140's the Creedmoor SAAMI's at about 2700 fps. So anyone who rambles on about how they are pushing them to 2,900-3,000 fps. "With no pressures"; is a bloody fool.
I also agree that hornday brass isn't bad brass per say...but...and I can only comment on 50pcs of their 300wm brass...I bought a 50 box and the internal volumes were all over and had a 13g ES...out of the 50pcs there was 10 that had a 2g spread all the rest were 3+gs.
I also know...like you said...MOST ppl don't pay attention to the brass/barrel length/primers and velocities that the books list...I know that Remington 260 brass has the most internal volume of all the 260 brass at 56-57g H2o and that lapua has the least at about 52-53gs H2o which equates to higher pressure with the same charge and IMHO is where ppl get the idea that the brass is bad.
Great answers guys.
I have no intensions of going the Creedmoor route. Im "extremely" pleased with my Stock LRP 12 in 260 Rem. The 260 LC Brass I purchased from Matt (Grumpa) is working out just as planned with no issues at a significantly lower cost. Been sending pills from 200 out to 1300 (so far) and I couldn't be happier. The stock rig just suprises me to no end.
Ive always been inquisitive if there are any factual reasons as to what makes the Creed more accurate and consistant as users/shooters suggest.
#1. I had no idea it was developed for gas guns
#2. I didn't know theres a difference in case capacity.
Life is tuff.....its even tuffer when your stupid
{John Wayne}
Hard to say. Perhaps the difference is like the 6mm PPC and 6mm Remington BR....at first PPC shooters said no way the 6mm BR was as good but a lot of 6mm BR folks began to make that opinion more of a subjective one. It could be that the shoulder angle and case dimensions of the Creedmoor, like the PPC, lend themselves to more consistent accuracy than the 260. Or not. Who knows?if there are any factual reasons as to what makes the Creed more accurate and consistant as users/shooters suggest.
LR,
The one caution about Win brass I have for you, is lots.
Olin sold the cartridge brass business around a decade ago. So now they buy on a "least-cost" bid contract. So where, who, how it gets built can change at any moment. I know of 2 different sources since the sale.
Now this isn't too say what they are doing is wrong, or bad. Just that everyone has different machines and tolerances.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
this is the reason I weigh all new brass with H2o and then look back at the weights of the last lot I shot and adjust accordingly....a little over board but I weigh them again after the first firing and FL re-size.
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