A crown with a slight beveled edge will not hinder accuracy if it is done correctly. A crown with a sharp edge will work fine also, but it is more suseptible to damage from cleaning jags. I prefer a slight bevel and have had no issues. I've actually done some testing with various crowns and what most people would call "damaged" crowns, and found that it is not as important as most people emphasize.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
Looks good. Looks like a factory target crown. Personally? ..I'm not a big fan of a bevel at the end of the bore/muzzle. that process is so subjective. The 1st thing I checked when I got my factory LRP Model in 260 was in fact the crown. It looks just like your freshly cut barrel. Flat as can be,no bevel.
Now rework your load,keep it simple,shoot it, and have fun Mr. R&D dude......lololololol
A dude over on the hide cut his 308 barrel to length with a hack saw before he took it to the Smith to be cleaned up. Just to see what would happen, he took it out and shot some groups. It still grouped surprisingly well with no crown and a somewhat jagged cut.
i call a guy i shoot matches with last night that shoots a criterion and he said the same thing and also said his crown is the exact same way with the bevel...i also agree about ppl putting to much emphasize on the crown...im pretty hard on them when i clean and have never had an accuracy issue i could shoot well enough to notice.Originally Posted by sharpshooter
as soon as it shoots ill get board and change something...ive got 3000 fed match primers coming today so im going to start load development with them and see how they work compared to the CCI BR-2s...im hoping good because they are almost half the price as the BR-2s.
ive the story on AS where they took 28" barrels and cut them off with a chop saw 1" at a time right at the bench and shot groups checking velocity and the groups where pretty impressive for just whacking it off in a chop saw....like i said im pretty hard when cleaning as i scrub my barrels with a bronze brush pushing all the way through and pull back through the barrel...my thought is that its stainless steel which is much harder that the coating on a dewy rod or a bronze brush and any small imperfections cleaning would cause id never notice anyway.
"GOOD GRIEF" its like christmas in july...new crown shorter barrel and new primers
..And a Charlie Brown lunch box to bring your sammiches to the range! Lol
Good luck with the "new" barrel. Nice crown too.
Been using Fed 210M primers for years. You,ll like them. In all honesty, CCI standard large rifle have been just as consistent for me.
3k worth of fed match primers will last you a while.
This getting bored thing once you've achieved your goals and start changing things will defently lead to severe case of "changacytis" which may lead to buy more stuffinitis. GOOD GRIEF!........Lololololo
thats just for snacks...the green one is where the food goes...it takes a lot of fuel to keep this 285lb body going lol.
ive wanted to try the FEDM primers for a long time but they have been like trying to find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow...i to have had great results with the CCI primers both BRs and the 200s but i also keep a 1000 or so of win,rem and fed primers around in both standard and mag because ive found a few loads that shoot very well and with a primer swap they turned into fantastic loads...for instance if your getting vertical spreads and know for a fact your rifle is sound nine times outta 10 a hotter primer will help straighten that out as long as your not at max powder charge...same with a load that shoots great in summer but not so great in winter.
Is your rifle bedded? Sometimes I get oil or whatever, that creaps between theaction and bedding in the front. This can cause funny things to happen as wel.
Just a thought!
Dan.l
There really is an excuse for everything!
Yes...pillered and bedded in Devcon 10110.
sorry this got cut short i was in the middle of something....with the 30" barrel being as heavy as it was you would think it would of helped with vertical but it did just the opposite...the vertical spreads increased...i moved my bipod back and it helped...not sure why this is...more velocity/muzzle blast? anyway i moved my bipod back to its normal position and will see what happens tomorrow.
Last edited by LongRange; 07-17-2015 at 05:08 PM.
You get more vertical because the bullet spends more time in the barrel. The rifle recoils the moment it leaves the case, and the longer it's in the barrel, the more vertical the barrel moves before the bullet exits. It is more evident on bigger calibers like .308, and more evident when shooting from a rest. It is a sign that the rifle is not recoiling the same everytime due to an inconsistant hold.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
thanks Fred...i will work on my hold.....i also need to work on follow through.
so i went out 5 time last weekend....3 time saturday and twice sunday....ill try and keep this short and am not going to post a bunch of pics until i get a few things figured out.
so i put this rifle back together and threw a piece of my sized brass in to make sure everything was ok....i like my brass to chamber a little tight so i size accordingly...well when i checked after putting the rifle back together it felt just a little bit tight but not overly so.
i loaded up an OCW test with 140g BTHP hornadys the fed 210 match primers and RL-17....saturday morning i went out and shot the OCW(followed to the letter)and out of the 7 groups only one made any since and that was 42g....every other group had no rime or reason to how each shot hit the target...meaning there was no pattern.
so i went home and loaded up 10 rounds at .020 off the lands(OCW seating depth),5 at .010 off,5 at .030 off and 5 at .040 off. i went back out and set up at 400yds and shot the .040 group first...shots 1&2 were so close you could just call it 1 hole and were a 1/8" right of dead center....shot 3 didnt even hit the target(40"tall buy 24" wide)from what i could see it went way high and left...shot 4 way high and right...shot 5 5" low and in line with 1&2....WTF!!!!
i went out and moved my target in to 200yds and shot the .030 group....this was a 7" scattered group....i then shot the .010 group and it shot the same as the .040 group....first 2 in the same hole but 3 went 5" high right....4 went 6" low and way left and 5 went about the same but 2" right....now im not the best trigger man but 6&7" groups at 200yds???
i blamed the RL-17 because my lowest ES was 57fps but at 200yds it shouldnt make a 6" POI shift....with the last of the .020 group i did a tracking check...i shot 1 round dead center of target...added 3 moa elev and shot round 2....down 6 moa and shot round 3....back to center and 3 moa left shot round 4....6 moa right and shot round 5....back to dead center and shot round 6....i let the barrel cool a little between each of these shots and ALL shots were with in 1/4" of actual adjustments so the scope is not the problem.
i went home and loaded an OCW with the same bullets and primers but with H4350 and went out and shot it...when i got home i decided to bump the shoulders on the brass i was going to load for the seating depth test in the morning because like i said the brass was fitting a little tight....i bumped a shoulder back .002 and chambered the piece and it was still tight so i measured that piece and i was 1.621 which should of chambered nice or even a little loose but i sized one more piece and it measured 1.620 which should be loose but was still tight...i then cycled the bolt with no brass and it felt just about the same as with a piece of brass....this action has ALWAYS cycled nice and smooth now(after all of this and pulling the barrel AGAIN)i found that the bolt body is dragging on the action at about 4 to 5 o'clock right behind the lugs if your looking from the butt end.
so now im wondering is the action tweaked from the 30" barrel? the bolt was fine when that barrel was on.
is the bolt body tweaked? it was fine with the 30" barrel on.
when i let the barrel cool between shots it seems to shoot pretty good but not so great when warm?i need to check this.
lotta questions here.
i did out and shoot the seating test sunday morning from the 140g hornaday H4350 OCW and had i little improvement but not enough to pursue so i loaded up an OCW test with H4350 fed 210m primer and 142g SMKs and shot that ocw which shows great promise because all 7 groups follow a pattern they are not just random like with the 140g hornadys...but theres still the bolt issue/questions...im going to shoot a seating test with the 142g SMKs before i do anything else to the rifle and see what happens....if the same things as above then ill start by putting the factory bolt body back and see what happens.
Last edited by LongRange; 07-21-2015 at 09:27 AM.
well this bolt issue has been bugging me so last night i pulled the action and from the looks of it the bolt has been rubbing for a long time...the funny thing is is that it has always cycled very smooth until last weekend....the only thing i can come up with is that the rubbing between the two parts finally wore through the hard smooth surfaces of the bolt and action and started to grind/drag.
there was a couple of small burrs on the bottom edge of the right lug race way and the ruff area at the bottom of the action where the bolt body has been rubbing...so the body has been rubbing on the bottom right quarter of the action but no where else. i took some 2000 grit wet and dry and smoothed the burrs off the lug race and the bottom of the action then did a little more with some 2500 grit...the bolt was still dragging so i put the factory body back together with the PT&G bolt head then used a black sharpie and coated the body where it has been rubbing and cycled the bolt a few times and it was still rubbing but just enough to show a mark in the black from the sharpie so i put the factory bolt head back on and checked again and now nothing is rubbing and the bolt cycles smooth.
i also adjusted the pin protrusion from about .055 to about .041(as best as i can tell with my crud measurments)as i was getting some pretty good cratering in the fed primers...im not sure if the bolt body issue would effect accuracy but im willing to bet it could...i guess ill find out saturday morning but at the same time i guess i wont know 100% that the body rubbing was causing problems but i guess ill have an idea.
so i made a few changes since last weekend and its seems the changes help quite a bit...i was to the point last sunday that i told myself if it dont shoot this morning its going to be a fence post tonight!!
changes...
put the factory bolt body and bolt head back together because the PT&G was rubbing
adjusted the firing pin protrusion to about .041...and ended up adjusting it more this morning as i was shooting....041 was still hitting pretty hard so i adjusted it another 1/4 of a turn. shot a group and adjusted it another 1/4 and will most likely adjust it 1/4 turn more as its just barely cratering now so im guessing it will end up about .030 to .035...but this is crud measurements using the back side of my calipers.
loosened and re-torqued action screws...40"lbs-40"lbs-10"lbs and will play with the rear(10"lbs)screw if and when i find a load that shoots.
i went out this morning and shot 20 rounds using what i thought was the 2 best loads from my H4350 OCW last weekend.
i shot this load today at 200yds and it was about a 4" group...i know...with the OCW your not looking for one hole groups but i had to try it...
this was the next load i shot because in the OCW test 41gs 41.3gs and 41.7gs all had the same POI pattern...in the OCW test i was seated .020 off so i loaded 15 rounds at 41.3gs seated .010 .020 and .030 off the lands....020 off was about 3"....030 off started low and grouped in a line vertically about 2.5"....and the pic is the .010 group...still not what i expect from this barrel but much better than it has been shooting....
i also thought last minute this morning about the RL-19 loads that shot well when the barrel was still 30" long and figured what the hell it cant shoot any worse and im glad i did or this barrel would be stuck in the ground right now LOL.
44.5gs of RL-19 and 45.2gs shot well at .010 off the lands when it was 30" so i loaded up 5 of each...the 45.2gs was all over...this is the 44.5g load at 200yds and is probably the best group shot out of this barrel....i know its not great but two things here...1st it shows promise for the first time out...2nd(and not a excuse)i can BARLEY make out the yellow against the white when looking through my scope...they almost blend together...
i have 15 rounds loaded at 44.5gs...5 at .005 off the lands...5 at .010 off and 5 at .015 off...i also loaded 5 rounds at 44gs and .010 off and 5 rounds at 44.3gs and .010 off and will shoot them latter on(if the wind dies off...about 20mph and gusting right now)or early tomorrow before the wind starts....
Last edited by LongRange; 07-25-2015 at 02:50 PM.
so i call a buddy saturday and asked him to come out and shoot with me on sunday just to see if its me or something going on with this riffle...i loaded up 5 more rounds at 44.5g of RL-19 at .010 off the lands so that we could each shoot 10 rounds...2 5 shot groups each....along with the other loads i listed above none of which shot...
we set up at 300yds and he shot the first group...
we let the barrel cool and i shot the second group....first two rounds right next to each other in the orange and then the low shot the center shot and the high shot...
we let the barrel cool then he shot the 3rd group 1-2 and 3 and then the 2 high shots...i got down as soon as he was done(no cooling time)and shot group 4....1 is the lowest shot..then 2...then 3 and 4 in the same hole...then 5.....
im not sure whats going on here as ive NEVER had these issues with this riffle...or ANY riffle for that matter...but for now im done with this until i get my barrel back from Jim at Apache. ive thrown every combo at this thing i have and nothing has shot well or consistently...the barrel Jim has is a shilen with about 28-2900 rounds through it..it will be re-chambered(260)..cut to 25" and crowned so when i get it back i will get back to this thread.
off topic here but after all the issues ive been having i started doubting my abilities.....plus we have a match next weekend and ive only shot my other 260 once or twice in the last 2 months...so i figured i better go send a few and make sure everything was good since ive had so many issues with the riffle in this thread.
wind was 7MPH left to right from where i was shooting and i have no idea at the target as i forgot to bring my target flags...the picture is upside down so the low right is actually the first(cold bore)high left...i was on and the wind was steady so i sent the other 4....this is a 2.5"x3.5" group at 655yds...2.5"x2" if you remove the cold bore shot...im thinking im not really the problem with the riffle in this thread!?!
this is the the riffle that shot that group....and has me wondering if my stock is part of the problem as its not quite as comfortable as this one is....time for an element i guess
Sweet! about 1/2 MOA,, It never even crossed my mind that it was your shooting abilities,,, for you are "LongRange" ,,, man!
There really is an excuse for everything!
Everyone has a good day now and then lol....
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