Reply With QuoteI will definitely check that out.Originally Posted by DocDoc
Thank you!
gunrack, it looks like there is a problem with bedding, scope or something of that order. That is suggested by the two grouping in the targets.
I will definitely check that out.
Thank you!
Gun Rack, I am a big fan of the 708 like so many others who obviously are trying to help. do you mind you identifying the scope you are using?
It's the little cheapo Bushnell that came on it. I believe it's a Banner? Hopefully Santa Clause is bringing me a new one. :-) I asked for a Nikon
DocDoc, I took the action out of the stock and found a few things that looked suspect so I ground out some material and just finished bedding the action. Everything went together well and I used plenty of release agent so hopefully I can put this variable out of the equation. As far as the scope I can't do anything about that right now because if my wife got me one for Christmas and I go buy one for myself then I will be in a world of crap. LOL
Robinhood, thanks! I love that caliber and this rifle will get there eventually that I am sure. Man it gets frustrating but it will be well worth it when she starts shooting.
I think your problem will be solved if Santa makes a good choice. There have been many a shooter frustrated trying to resolve accuracy issues with package scopes. With the far east becoming a major supplier of sporting optics a lot of junk is floating around out there. Luckily there are some scopes that are reasonably priced that will fit the bill.
Do you have any suggestions on charge weights with the 4320 and Varget on the 139's?
gunrack , what are you using as an aimpoint on your targets? If its merely a black dot with no coinciding Vertical and horizontal reference points then there's really no way you can rule out that you may in fact be canting the rifle.... You want to see something neat , take a look at a target 100yds downrange through a scope with upwards of 50X with both the rifle and the targets level and plumb and then cant the rifle , you'd be shocked at the small amount of cant it takes to make a group look like a shotgun was in the vicinity lol.
Generally speaking provided you done the usual steps such as bedding , trigger , proper torque on the action screws , float the tang and are positive you've ZERO parallax in the scope then you should be seeing something come together .
Good luck.
Just the black dot because that is all I had and didn't want to drive 30 minutes one way to buy a target. I will pick up some of the good targets in a day or so when I get to the sporting goods store. I am pretty confident that I was squared up on the gun. I was on a bench with the gun level in a sled. I couldn't have gotten any more solid than what I was without strapping the thing down.
Right now I am letting the bedding dry for 7 more hours which will put it at 24 hours before I remove the action to check out my job. I loaded up some rounds in two batches last night to shoot as soon as I get the chance which will probably be Saturday. I loaded three powder charges using the same powder just a slight increase in each set of three rounds, using the same bullet in each set, the only difference between the two batches is .005" in seating depths. One batch is .020" off the lands and the other is .015" off. Hopefully this will tell us something.
I am really tempted to put a different scope on it but I am afraid if it shoots with the new scope I will not know what fixed the issue and I want to be certain I get to the root cause. Once I get the thing shooting I'm not inclined to go back and turn the problem on again.
Thanks!
Some blank paper along with a pen and a straight edge will make good enough targets to give a reasonable aim point.. bring a small level with you to the range and try to get them as plumb and level as possible .... If you are using a Caldwell lead sled then that might be another issue , the rifle needs to have some type of repeatable movement during recoil.
To add to this , a piece of string with a weight attached can be fastened to the backer board that you are using for target hanger... When I am doing load work up for a particular caliber I will bring a sheet of butchers paper and completely cover the target frame , then I take a nail and attach it to the top of the frame so as to have something to hang a plumb line from... Then using a straight edge I will draw a line that is on the edge of the plumb line , this line should be the entire length of the target paper , followed by a horizontal line that intersects which will be used as the aim point.
At this point I can now utilize one aim point on the plumb line and start shooting the various loads to see where they stack up vertically .
Example : 3 rounds at 38 grains of powder are 2" high of aim point
3 rounds at 38.5 grains are at 2.5" high of aim point
3 rounds at 39.0 grains are at 3" high of aim point
3 rounds at 39.5 grains are at 3" high of aim point
3 rounds at 40.0 grains are at 3.2" high of aim point
3 rounds at 40.5 grains are at 2.75" high of aim point and cases are showing pressure**
At this point I can deduce that there is a "Node" at between 39 grains and perhaps 39.5 and would mean that given a temperature change or what have you , if I stay in that 39.0-39.5 range I shouldn't see too much variation in my elevation (you could say that 39.3 would be a happy medium)
If at this point you still find that your groups are not as tight as they should be horizontally then that is where the seating depth test can shrink them possibly . (powder plays with vertical and seating depth plays with horizontal given the rifle is halfway accurate)
The seating depth test is quite simply done in the same manner but with a horizontal line instead of vertical.
Good luck.
Last edited by Patch700; 12-12-2014 at 02:55 PM.
Thanks Patch700 this is good stuff!
I did get to shoot after bedding the rifle yesterday and I have to say we had a much better day today. If I had been able to get solid I am sure the groups would have been better but this is a drastic improvement over what the rifle has done up to know.
Awesome group of .375"
Was going to be another dandy group but I pulled this one for sure. Knew it when the rifle fired.
Anyway it was a good day. I just got in from the farm and took time to post the pics before getting in the shower. I'd like to thank everyone that has offered help to me with this even though some of you did make fun of my targets......LOL Just kidding as you can see I did go spring for a package of targets but I am not at all crazy about the green....
Awesome! Thats a little more like it. Glad its shooting better....job well done!
Scooter
I'm the Boss. I make sure what she wants gets done.
My 7mm/08 really likes H-380 W760 and H-414.With the 168 sierra I often get less than 1/2 moa
Good to see your getting it dialed in now...just remember to only change one thing at a time or you will always be chasing loads.
I love a happy ending!
Very nice , always good to have folks report back on their findings so others can see definitively what worked for them... One thing for you to play with if you so choose with regards to working up loads is to always utilize the same aim point and NEVER do a scope adjustment , leaving the scope alone during testing will allow you to place targets side by side or even on top of each other to see if you are indeed sitting within a node..
Looking at your targets one could say that there is actually very little deviation windage wise and those that do have some are probably shooter error or possibly shooting without flags with A LOT of changes happening in the condition. This would dictate your probably rite where you want to be with your .020" off the lands.
You could try fine tuning the seating depth in .003" increments (.010" is too much of an increment to increase or decrease by as you may totally pass a node)
even your last group you shot at 45.2 , if you look where the flyer is it is exactly rite in the group elevation wise... Definitely worth dialing in and fine tuning that load!
Good luck
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