Problem mounting rail to 110 flat back due to twisted action- permanently bed?

[foxx]

It no longer looks twisted to me, either. If the bolt travels smoothly through the rails and it mounts to the stock as well as it seems to do so, then I would say as someone else already has, that the top is not machined properly. It all comes down to finding a way to grind/mill the top surface so that a scope can be mounted square and level to the bore.

If it were me, not having access to a mill, I would grind it as close to level as possible then use JB weld or Devcon 10110 to not just bed, but permanently mount a one piece base to the action then use Burris Signature Zee rings hoping the shims will make the scope straight. you might have to drill and tap new screw holes so they are aligned perpendicular to the top after leveling it. I think I would assume the front screw holes are aligned correctly, mount one piece rail with the front screws, then use the rear screw holes on the mount as a "gig" to determine rear screw spacing. Don't worry if the rear holes are sloppy, just drill a place for them and use the Devcon to anchor the screws and to fill any sloppiness.

I say all of that because I doubt the cost of dong it "less crudely" is too great. I'd rather toss it and start with a new receiver than spend a lot of money on it. When you're done, it will either work or it won't. It is what it is. :)

[Smokey262]

I recall a famous gunsmith saying that the front does all the hard work and is the only part that needs to be strong. I also recall that only the front is heat treated. The top back could be milled or ground without harming anything, except the resale value, unless the work was done very very well.

The challenge will be to find someone with a mill to do it for free or cheap.

Grinding it would work too, as of course that is how it got to be in this condition in the first place. Go slow, check often, and finish by hand.

[BillPa]

Well, the action may be twisted a tad from the heat treating process but if it is it ain't much. I use these to check'm.


The shortie is for the front one in the ring. They allow me not only to check they're in alignment but also if they're drilled and taped straight side to side, front to back.

They also come in handy when I (always) bed an action to a mount or mounts.

But back to our regular scheduled programming.....

The bridge is fubared, a one eyed blind man can see it. The only hope (read above), bed the bridge to the mount and use whatever length screws needed to secure it. Brownells has gaggles of them.

Bill

[notpu]

It no longer looks twisted to me, either. If the bolt travels smoothly through the rails and it mounts to the stock as well as it seems to do so, then I would say as someone else already has, that the top is not machined properly. It all comes down to finding a way to grind/mill the top surface so that a scope can be mounted square and level to the bore.

If it were me, not having access to a mill, I would grind it as close to level as possible then use JB weld or Devcon 10110 to not just bed, but permanently mount a one piece base to the action then use Burris Signature Zee rings hoping the shims will make the scope straight. you might have to drill and tap new screw holes so they are aligned perpendicular to the top after leveling it. I think I would assume the front screw holes are aligned correctly, mount one piece rail with the front screws, then use the rear screw holes on the mount as a "gig" to determine rear screw spacing. Don't worry if the rear holes are sloppy, just drill a place for them and use the Devcon to anchor the screws and to fill any sloppiness.

I say all of that because I doubt the cost of dong it "less crudely" is too great. I'd rather toss it and start with a new receiver than spend a lot of money on it. When you're done, it will either work or it won't. It is what it is. :)

The front seems to lay flat as is, leading me to believe the high side of the rear is the correct height. I'm leaning towards using Devcon 10110 to make the rear level with the high side of the rear.

With the rear at such an angle, I'd question my ability to drill and tap new screw holes in the right place before bedding. It also seems very likely that the new screw holes would overlap with the existing holes. Would it work to permanently bed the base with Devcon 10110 using the front screws, then drill and tap into the Devcon? Would I even need the rear screws?

[notpu]

OK, I yield to those who say it is no twisted and have no solutions for this problem.
Frankly it still looks twisted to me but if the action screws are in line with the barrel then there no way the action is twisted.
Sorry to have wasted your time.

Olddav, I really appreciate your time and your thoughts. Definitely not a waste of time at all!

[notpu]

Well, the action may be twisted a tad from the heat treating process but if it is it ain't much. I use these to check'm.


The shortie is for the front one in the ring. They allow me not only to check they're in alignment but also if they're drilled and taped straight side to side, front to back.

They also come in handy when I (always) bed an action to a mount or mounts.

But back to our regular scheduled programming.....

The bridge is fubared, a one eyed blind man can see it. The only hope (read above), bed the bridge to the mount and use whatever length screws needed to secure it. Brownells has gaggles of them.

Bill

Thanks. What are the pictures of, and do you have a link? They seem very helpful.

[foxx]

If front is high and level with the high side of the rear I would mount it with the two front screws and drill two sloppy holes in the rear knowing they will overlap the existing holes that are crooked. Just as you said. Make them bigger than your screws. Now test to see that the screws fit into the holes in the receiver . If all looks good remove the mount. Scuff up the surface of both and add good amount of Devon and then while still soft replace mount and install front screws as normal. Finally push rear crews into the d evcon. My objective is to avoid trying to make a good hole over the pre existing hole and try to tap. Instead just press the screw into the epoxy and let it bond to the screws. Bond the whole thing to the top of the action. Smear devcon all around it and when its hard clean it up with a dremel.

Like I said I am not talented enough to do it right. And I would just want to make it functional for cheap. I think this would work.

[BillPa]

Thanks. What are the pictures of, and do you have a link? They seem very helpful.

They're studs threaded to 6-48. They're turned in to the mount screw holes to check they're alignment with a steel rule and see if they're drilled/taped straight.

I also use them when bedding mounts.

Link? No, I made'm

Bill

[notpu]

They're studs threaded to 6-48. They're turned in to the mount screw holes to check they're alignment with a steel rule and see if they're drilled/taped straight.

I also use them when bedding mounts.

Link? No, I made'm

Bill

You made them? That's awesome! Thanks again for your help.

[notpu]

If front is high and level with the high side of the rear I would mount it with the two front screws and drill two sloppy holes in the rear knowing they will overlap the existing holes that are crooked. Just as you said. Make them bigger than your screws. Now test to see that the screws fit into the holes in the receiver . If all looks good remove the mount. Scuff up the surface of both and add good amount of Devon and then while still soft replace mount and install front screws as normal. Finally push rear crews into the d evcon. My objective is to avoid trying to make a good hole over the pre existing hole and try to tap. Instead just press the screw into the epoxy and let it bond to the screws. Bond the whole thing to the top of the action. Smear devcon all around it and when its hard clean it up with a dremel.

Like I said I am not talented enough to do it right. And I would just want to make it functional for cheap. I think this would work.

That makes sense. Thanks!

[BillPa]

The only thing to foxx's post, you may want to build a dam using clay, plumber's putty or Play-Doe around the mount-action to keep the Devcon PS , JB or JB-Quick were it belongs.

Bill

[foxx]

Also, VERY IMPORTANT! Make sure you plug the bottom of the holes for the mount screws if they protrude thru the action (they probably do). You don't want any epoxy getting into the action. If it were me, I'd lube the heck out of the inside of the action and then pack the underside full of putty so no epoxy can get in there.

[sharpshooter]

The only way to check it for twist is to use a raceway gauge. Then check it for a bow using a threaded mandrel and a floating mandrel. If it is truly just the rear bridge out of whack, I would mill it flat and add the appropriate shim. If the holes were off for the scope bases, I would simply relocate them. If the action screw holes were off, on top of everything else, I would dedicate this action to a fireform gun....and find a good action to build from. Looks like that gun was made in 1969.

[foxx]

I'd ship it to Fred. ^^^
And the original picture looks like it is twisted.

[notpu]

Also, VERY IMPORTANT! Make sure you plug the bottom of the holes for the mount screws if they protrude thru the action (they probably do). You don't want any epoxy getting into the action. If it were me, I'd lube the heck out of the inside of the action and then pack the underside full of putty so no epoxy can get in there.

Thanks for the suggestion; they do protrude through the action.

[notpu]

The only thing to foxx's post, you may want to build a dam using clay, plumber's putty or Play-Doe around the mount-action to keep the Devcon PS , JB or JB-Quick were it belongs.

Bill

Thanks. How fluid is Devcon etc? I've heard that some are pretty runny, while others are pretty solid. It seems like I need to build it up a lot, which I assume is why you are suggesting making a clay dam.

[wbm]

would dedicate this action to a fire form gun....and find a good action to build from.

That's what I was thinking when I saw OP number one.

[JCalhoun]

notpu,

In case you are not aware, sharpshooter has been working Savage for a long time. There much experience in what he says.

Secondly, as it's an older rifle with issues you may be better off getting a new rifle to shoot for now and use this one as a parts gun later.

[foxx]

Thanks. How fluid is Devcon etc? I've heard that some are pretty runny, while others are pretty solid. It seems like I need to build it up a lot, which I assume is why you are suggesting making a clay dam.

Devcon 10110 is like peanut butter. Very strong and good bond. dams would still be good and pretty much used whenever you use an epoxy of any kind.

Also, I agree with all these guys. I was not joking when I said send it to Fred. My suggestions for "repair" need to be taken in context. IF I were to do it myself and did not really care to spend money on it, etc. THat's what I would do to it. I would never do such a thing for a friend's gun or anything like that. Kinda like using duct tape to fix a car. :)

[notpu]

notpu,

In case you are not aware, sharpshooter has been working Savage for a long time. There much experience in what he says.

Secondly, as it's an older rifle with issues you may be better off getting a new rifle to shoot for now and use this one as a parts gun later.

I was not aware of sharpshooter's history. I'm new to Savage and the forum, and it's helpful to know whose guidance I should especially be paying attention to. Thanks!

I'm interested in hunting and eventually getting into long range shooting, and I had hoped that a 110 action could provide a good action to build from. Apparently, this one may not be that action. As it's currently my one and only bolt gun, I'm interested in trying to do as much as I can (safely) with it and make mistakes on an old, inexpensive action so that when I do get a new one, I'll hopefully do a decent job. It's hopefully not unrealistic to make this functional as a hunting rifle with minimal incremental investment. As much as I might prefer to scrap this rifle and start anew, I won't likely have the funds for that in the near term.

Are older actions generally inferior, or did I just get unlucky?

Thanks again for your comment.

[notpu]

Devcon 10110 is like peanut butter. Very strong and good bond. dams would still be good and pretty much used whenever you use an epoxy of any kind.

Also, I agree with all these guys. I was not joking when I said send it to Fred. My suggestions for "repair" need to be taken in context. IF I were to do it myself and did not really care to spend money on it, etc. THat's what I would do to it. I would never do such a thing for a friend's gun or anything like that. Kinda like using duct tape to fix a car. :)

Makes sense. I would definitely prefer not to spend money on it, and I am looking forward to learning by working on it myself; if I had the funds, I think I would take the majority's advice and get a new one.

I am embarrassed to ask, since he seems to be well known, but who is Fred? Is he sharpshooter? Thanks.

[foxx]

Yes. Fred is Sharpshooter. The "Savage Guru". :)

[JCalhoun]

Fred Moreo is sharpshooter of Sharp Shooter Supply.

The guns from the late 1960's through the late 1980's tended to have more quality control issues than the 1990's onward. There also some minor differences in them that could cause some issues in a build.

How did you acquire this rifle?

[notpu]

Fred Moreo is sharpshooter of Sharp Shooter Supply.

The guns from the late 1960's through the late 1980's tended to have more quality control issues than the 1990's onward. There also some minor differences in them that could cause some issues in a build.

How did you acquire this rifle?

Thanks for the explanation. I was specifically looking for an older 110 that I could later change the barrel and stock as my skills and interests developed. I found this one on Armslist.

If you have a resource you could direct me to where I could learn about potential issues, I'd appreciate it. I was under the impression that the action had been largely constant since Savage changed how it attached barrels around 1967 until the recent change of the location of the bolt release.

I'm very grateful for everyone's help.

[foxx]

Unless they disclosed the issues you're talking about, I'd say you got cheated.