rings not aligned with barrel L to R

[jonrobinson]

Anyone's help would be much appreciated.

I bought my first Savage used. It is a very nice looking 110 in .270 caliber. The rifles appears to have very little use on it.
When I installed the first set of rings and bases (weaver 2 piece bases/Grand Slam clamp rings) I noticed on sighting in that
the gun was hitting WAY right. I had to shoot at 18 yards to be on a 3' wide piece of sheet rock. I was able to get the gun sighted
but the whole thing bothered me.

So, I went to work, made a scope ring alignment tool like you see in the catalogs and checked the ring alignment to the barrel.
(Note: I have a machine shop at work. The tool was made from 1" drill rod. it is true within less than .001" in diameter and straightness.)
Sure enough the barrel and rings are not aligned in the same axis.

So, I changed to 2 piece Millet style bases and rings. I got the type with the twist in front and windage adjustable rear. To get the rings
aligned with barrel I had to move the rear ring to the right a fair piece off center. But, I was able to get it aligned.

So, my question is what gives?
The little I shot the gun it appears to group very good (.375" inch at 50 yards, 2 shots only).

Should this concern me?
Solutions?
Will Savage fix under warranty? The gun appears to have very little use.

Thanks for the help!

Jonrobinson

[bpratl]

I have a very similar problem with a new 12 VLP in .204 cal except I am shooting very low and to the left. I tried two different scopes and both were ZEROED out in wind age and elevation to get it on target. I sent it back to savage and it was returned with no explanation on what was done but; had a nice 3 shot group test target which left me to believe that it was fixed. I tried it again and had the same results and both scopes ran out of adjustment. I just ordered a one piece base with wind age adjustment and I will give this a try. A laser bore scope confirmed a misalignment between the scope and barrel. If the barrel was bent I would assume that Savage would have found it when they retested the rifle. I have set up and zeroed at least 30 rifles and never had this problem.

[Don - LongRangeSupply]

Very common and not just with Savages.

Can be due to several things, probably the most common is a warped action. The quickest and one of the best solutions is a one piece picatinny base, bedded to the action and Burris Signature rings.

[jonrobinson]

So, if the gun shoots good should I just live with it? Are their any other potential problems that this can cause?

Will Savage cover this under warranty considering I bought the gun used?


Thanks!

Jonrobinson

[tucker301]

No, you should not just live with it.

My Savage muzzleloader was bottoming out on left impact adjustment, because the scope was obviously canted left.
Two different sets of bases and rings - same results.

I e-mailed Joe Degrande about the problem. I missed his return call, but he left a very informative voice message. He explained that they will place the rifle in a jig and fire it at 100 yards. They will then adjust a scope to match the point of impact and check to see if the scope still has ample adjustment up-down, right-left.
He requested that I ship them the rifle with the stock, minus my scope and mounts.

I shipped it last week, but have not heard back from them yet.
I fully expect them to rectify the problem, but I will post results to these forums when I've received the gun back and have re-mounted my optics and range tested it.

If you want the gun fixed, contact Savage and allow them the opportunity to help you.

[rjtfroggy]

I agree with the previous post. The original owner may have got rid of this rifle because of this problem.
It sounds like the mounting holes were drilled off center and only savage can repair properly( new receiver, so by all means call and return to them.

[Smokey262]

To get the rings aligned with barrel I had to move the rear ring to the right a fair piece off center. But, I was able to get it aligned

How far off center is it? We talking 0.035" here or a quarter inch?

[chestsprings]

No, you should not just live with it.

My Savage muzzleloader was bottoming out on left impact adjustment, because the scope was obviously canted left.
Two different sets of bases and rings - same results.

I e-mailed Joe Degrande about the problem. I missed his return call, but he left a very informative voice message. He explained that they will place the rifle in a jig and fire it at 100 yards. They will then adjust a scope to match the point of impact and check to see if the scope still has ample adjustment up-down, right-left.
He requested that I ship them the rifle with the stock, minus my scope and mounts.

I shipped it last week, but have not heard back from them yet.
I fully expect them to rectify the problem, but I will post results to these forums when I've received the gun back and have re-mounted my optics and range tested it.

If you want the gun fixed, contact Savage and allow them the opportunity to help you.

I went thru the same thing with my VLP, 22-250. see some of my post on this. sent the rifle to Joe, they did there thing, & said it was with in specs. they were really nice about it, & Joe is a super guy, but if it's with in Savages specs., nothing will be done.

I fianlly took my base & had my b-i-l mill some of it, as the action , in 6 inches was .048 difference, yea! .048 difference from front to back.

then I used Burris inserts. it still was off to the right at 100 yds over 20+ inches. I then filed the right side of the base a little, ( only where the ring clamped tothe base, to get it closer. The Burris rings will help a lot, but as the more experienced/knowledgable people on the forum will tell you, a high % of Savage actions are "egg shaped". they will shoot .

[tucker301]

Yes, I think I have seen that post.
I'll reserve making my own judgments of Savage CS until I've heard back from them on my ML.

[bpratl]

I just installed a one piece Leupold base and after centering the scope windage and elevation adjustments I was able to center the group using the external windage adjustment but; the vertical was still off 16" at 100 yards. I install two .010" thick shims under the rear base mounting hole (.020" total) which brought the group to 1" below center. The rest I was able to fine tune using the scopes internal adjustments. This seems very excessive for a new rifle and I would still like to know what is causing the problem.

[tucker301]

I heard they got a new guy working on the lineups.

[J.Baker]

Here we go again.... ;D

The #1 cause of scope/barrel misalignment is a warped action, period. All Savage actions (as well as other mass production actions) are warped to some degree or another due to the heat-treat process. The floating bolt-head makes the warpage a non-issue as far as accuracy goes, but it can cause problems when mounting a scope.

The holes being drilled off-center isn't a possibility on the Savage simply due to the jig they use when drilling/tapping the holes. As the photo below shows, the action is indexed off the raceway and securely clamped in place as all 4 scope mount holes and the action screw holes are drilled simultaneously. Unfortunately, these holes have to be drilled before the heat treat process.

[img width=600 height=450]http://www.savageshooters.com/images/Articles/FactoryTour/Tapping1.jpg[/img]

Savage doesn't consider this warpage a defect and thus will not repair/replace the action under warranty. As such, the only real solution is to have a competent gunsmith straighten the action on a lathe. Basically they will use what is essentially a barrel stub screwed into the action to index it in the lathe. They then measure the run-out on the rear bridge of the action and bend it back as needed to get a zero run-out measurement.

[bpratl]

Thanks for your explanation. Is the method I used in shimming the rear mount, to correct excessive elevation error, a buyable fix or is there a better one?
Do the target actions go through a different quality control or is this also a problem with them?

[tucker301]

[img width=600 height=450]http://www.savageshooters.com/images/Articles/FactoryTour/Tapping1.jpg[/img]

Basically they will use what is essentially a barrel stub screwed into the action to index it in the lathe. They then measure the run-out on the rear bridge of the action and bend it back as needed to get a zero run-out measurement.

OK, two questions.

1. Who made sure the mounting holes in the jig were straight and square? :P

2. If it's enough of a problem to make a "Here we go again" statement, then why doesn't Savage do this BEFORE the rifle leaves the plant? Wouldn't that be the best place to handle the situation, rather than having problematic receivers released into the wild?

[tucker301]

I received an e-mail update from Joe today.
They have replaced my rifle and they are bench testing the new one for accuracy and scope alignment on Friday.
He will e-mail the group when they are done.

[Joe O]

Keep us posted Tucker.I have a LRPV at the factory as well,for bolt rebuild,due to primer cratering and faulty ejection.I used Burris two piece bases so didn't have a windage problem,using the opposing screws,but it shot 15 inches low.I installed a set of Burris offset inserts +10,-10 to get 10" up,then used the scope adjustment for the rest.The scope is going on a diferent gun,so will use +20,-20 on the Savage when instaling a new scope.Bases remain the same.

[tucker301]

I just got a call from Joe @ Savage. heck of a nice guy!
They have fired the rifle and it shoots 1.3" @ 100 yards.
They zeroed the scope and then checked it for adjustment in all directions.
He tells me I now have 5" N,S,E,W.

I should have it in hand next week sometime.
I'll post results as soon as I can get out and shoot it.

[GaCop]

Besides Burris rings, I've had good results using Weaver and Millett windage adjustable rings to save my internal adjustments.

[tucker301]

I received my package from Savage Arms yesterday.
They sent me a whole new gun, complete with all the trimmings.
Test targets show 1.3" 3 shot group @ 100 yards and 5" or so scope adjustment in each direction after zeroing.
I have not had a chance to shoot the gun yet, but I expect good things.
I am VERY pleased with their efforts to make things right.
It cost me a few dollars in shipping to get the gun to them, but I have gained a factory laminated stock, spare ramrod, and all accessories. So I think I'm OK with the shipping

PS: Mr. Baker, There are few 14" CRT's still in use. How about an upgrade on the max. image size for these forums?

Click thumbnail image for full-sized image.

[TnTom]

I am seriously considering NOT ordering a Mod 12 BVSS after reading this thread or any other Savage. !.3" at 100yd and tweaked receivers that typically need rework, sounds like some kind of joke. What the upside?

[kslefty]

The 1.3" group is with a muzzleloader, don't you feel a lot better now? Have 5 savage rifles of various manufacture dates and have never noticed any problems, try using 14" of your windage on a Ruger 77 to get it centered up @ 100 yds and see what you think of Ruger. At least with Savage I could use bases with windage adjustments.

[tucker301]

Just to update this thread.

I finally got decent weather and opportunity to shoot the replacement gun last week.

I centered the reticle on the scope before heading to the range.
The first shot at 100 yards was about 3" left and 6" low.
Made the adjustments, and bullseye!
Two more and I had nice little 1.5" group.

Savage came through for me!
Great Customer Service!