AR or AK?

[Stockrex]

go for saigas,
u can run ANY mag in them with a little bit of mod, depends on the caliber,
if you need to read more and convince yourself, here are some links:
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-567005.html

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f...99/index2.html

On page 1, the 308 shows a 1/2 moa group, with factory ammo, and .415 moa with hand loads,

This, like any other "question" on which platform should I get, turns into an epic AK vs AR, well just your cousins from AR move to AK and let there be peace in the family ;-)


Why I like Saigas?
chrome lined barrel, made in the fatherland in the same factory where designer worked till he passed.

[AZ_GUN_NUT]

Saiga is a perfectly fine weapon. More expensive though, and for the money the chinese and polish were just some of many that can be had for less money and equal if not better than the saiga.saiga is certainly a fine weapon much to the same standards as the German/Austrian Sig.

Also I wouldn't pigeonhole myself to the notion that I only can use surefire mags. I'd want the flexibility of being able to run steel factory mags as well as tapco and the new magpuls. versatility.

Here's a halfway decent video on how to mag it use regular AK mags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohTKhFC6zlw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27zB5W9pXKk

[buxman66]

Everyone is pointing out how to modify and while that is great to know, the point I was TRYING to make is that w/hardly any effort at all, you can buy a mak90, pmkms, sar-1, sa-95, Egyptian Maadi or a number of other well made AK's out there for LESS MONEY than a arsenal or saiga are running for. You wanna blow money on glossy magazine centerfold AK.....knock yourself out. The facts are out there if you wanna ffind them. Your opening statement said you was looking for a good quality, bang around rifle. The Saiga is a good quality rifle, but personally I don't think I'd be banging around w/it. I would be looking for a quality rifle, in a penetrable caliber,that will accept all mags, made in a military factory.

[buxman66]

I dont know your opinion on it, but I like the fact that big brother doesnt need to know anything you have stashed in your safe other than what you buy from your lgs. Armslist (and other forums) is a classified ad forum that you do face to face. No paperwork, no hassle. .gov wants to know what you have, I think they know W A Y too much as it is.

[wbm]

Ever consider an AK-74?

[wbm]

I dont know your opinion on it, but I like the fact that big brother doesn't need to know anything you have stashed in your safe

Or any place else. With new "executive orders" relating to firearms coming with increased frequency and a Congress that has no intention of being a real Congress things are going to get very interesting in the near future.

[broncbob]

I own both AK's and AR rifles, and I say go AR. They are far tougher and run far better than people think. There are many videos on youtube with AR torture tests. Yeah you can't huck a Twinkies in a AR action and expect it to run like a AK will, but why on earth are you putting Twinkies in your rifle?

The ergos on a AR kill the AK any day. I tend to look right over the sights on my would stocked AK. (this makes a micro red dot on a scout mount a perfect choice) I like the AK for what it is, but it's not a modern battle rifle. It's a dirt simple rifle that you can hand to any goat herder and he can make it go boom.

The balistics on the 7.2x69 aren't that great either. The .223 can be trusted up to med. game size, and with the 7 twist on most AR barrels you can run a bullet weight that I would trust on deer size game inside 200 yards.

[buxman66]

Ballistics on the 7.62x39 match those almost exactly to a .30-30 which for many years has been the standard for deer and other mid sized game.

[buxman66]

Or any place else. With new "executive orders" relating to firearms coming with increased frequency and a Congress that has no intention of being a real Congress things are going to get very interesting in the near future.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[broncbob]

Ballistics on the 7.62x39 match those almost exactly to a .30-30 which for many years has been the standard for deer and other mid sized game.

It was the standard for a long time, not so much these days with modern bullet construction and cartridge design. I would say you would be hard pressed to pick a new standard for medium size game, there is so much available these days. I would put fast twist 22-250 with one of the modern bullet designs over the 30-30. The main limiting factor being that most ammo is loaded to chamber and fire in rifles from a long time ago for the 30-30. The new fast twist 22-250 being able to take advantage of more modern power levels and bullet design. YMMV

[AZ_GUN_NUT]

Everyone is pointing out how to modify and while that is great to know, the point I was TRYING to make is that w/hardly any effort at all, you can buy a mak90, pmkms, sar-1, sa-95, Egyptian Maadi or a number of other well made AK's out there for LESS MONEY than a arsenal or saiga are running for. You wanna blow money on glossy magazine centerfold AK.....knock yourself out. The facts are out there if you wanna ffind them. Your opening statement said you was looking for a good quality, bang around rifle. The Saiga is a good quality rifle, but personally I don't think I'd be banging around w/it. I would be looking for a quality rifle, in a penetrable caliber,that will accept all mags, made in a military factory.

I'd love to see where you are finding MAK90's and Egyptian Maadi's for under $500??? And even if you did, they'd be thumbhole stocked and you'd end up putting another $150 or more into them to make them 922r compliant if you wanted to put a regular stock on them. Saiga's are very good quality, they're made in Russia and who knows better how to build an AK than the Russians???

[aquaticsanonymous]

Another vote for the AR. Too many options, all too fun. I like the overall AR's accuracy better than an AK also, but then again, I always bought cheap AK's.

[broncbob]

The accuracy of the AK isn't that bad for what it is. They have better shooting ones, but they are not in line with the AR can do. The AR is better for the build it your self type, and you have a host of options that will all run through the same lower. With nothing more than a new upper you can go from a 14" carbine NFA weapon to a 24" precession rifle, to a heavy thumping 458 SOCOM. All of these will run out of standard 5.56/.223 mags and lowers. All can be built to your liking and specs. (The SOCOM does have limited choices)

[buxman66]

I'd love to see where you are finding MAK90's and Egyptian Maadi's for under $500??? And even if you did, they'd be thumbhole stocked and you'd end up putting another $150 or more into them to make them 922r compliant if you wanted to put a regular stock on them. Saiga's are very good quality, they're made in Russia and who knows better how to build an AK than the Russians???

I'm sorry, I didn't know that you have the price list of everything under the sun bub! I purchased 2 mak90's under $500. This aint a pissin match. I trying to answer the O.P. question when he started this thread. The point is th........screw it. Done. People like you make me stay out of these conversations. BUXMAN66 OUT!

[Stockrex]

buxman, an AR or AK thread nearly always goes to bleeeeeeeeeeps, so pls disregard the out of context stuff, we appreciate the input.

I like gas guns, and I like value, Saiga's and other well made AKs are good value and capable weapons.

Right NOW one can get a converted Saiga for $500, I am sure the op is capable of finding one.

[EFBell]

I did not read through all of this thread but I look at it this way: If you want to hit what your aiming at use an AR if you want to spray and pray use the AK. Since not to many of us will be doing any jungle fighting anytime soon in southeast asia or on Guadalcanal I would say AR all the way.

[mazda3gun]

Well, after reading up since my last post, I must say that a few of us here need to relax and take a deep breathe! To answer a few questions and respond to a few statements:

I want 7.62cal, not 223. I want more lead should I use it for deer.

For a chrome lined barrel on an AR, the way I would want one set-up, would cost me in the $700+ range. Also why I'm leaning toward the AK.

I am concerned about the mag issue, but I have basic handtools and a mindset to make it fit. I'm sure I can make it work.

Checked GunBroker, I know it's not the end all be all, but mak90's cost as much as the AR I would build and pmkms's offer a PARTIAL kit for $475. Can still get a Saiga for under $500......

No, never considered an AK-74. Not sure why, just didn't. And probably won't, then I'd have to start ANOTHER thread haha!

SHEW!........ I think I answered most issues/questions up to this point now.

[tammons]

Save a little extra $ and Buy or build an AR flat top and set it up exactly like you want.
Better buy one assembled then tear it down and sell off the barrel etc.
More expensive but infinitely more versatile as far as upgrades etc.

Want a 7.62 plinker - buy a 300 blk barrel and that will be roughly equal to a 7.62x39 or a 30-30 and buy 3k of LC 5.56 brass and get busy. Want to shoot Subs with a can, 300 blk or 6.8 SPC and others.

Want a harder hitting round for hunting - swap to a 6.8 SPC.
The 6.8 SPC is a better hunting caliber than the 7.62x39 or the 300 blk IMO and thats after owning a 7.62x39 AR.

Want a sledge hammer, order a 358 Gremlin barrel from Mcgowen.

Want an even hotter harder hitting round with some legs - 30 rar or the 7mm variant.

Want an even hotter round, 300 OSSM (about like a 30-06) or one of the variants

You can swap a barrel on an AR in about 10 minutes or just build an entirely new upper and swap it on in 2 minutes.

[mazda3gun]

tammons, I don't reload...

[tammons]

Understand, but something you should definitely consider. In 223 or variants like 300 blk for instance if you buy bulk everything you can reload super cheap once you are set up.

Or set up a 7.62x39 now and swap barrels and bolts later if you want.

The 7.62x39 cheap ammo is really junk. In my AR I bought some steel case 123 gr stuff and it shot about 5" groups.
154 gr steel case soft points were better at about 2.5" but the bullet construction sucks for hunting. I shot 2 deer with that round expecting some sort of expansion seeing how it was a soft point, and both went through like a drill.

Bought some Remington premium ammo and that shot pretty well and 10X better hunting round.

Handloads is where it shined. 3/4" groups. Good enough that I shot several deer, neck shots.

So... what I ended up with was an upper that I could run cheap ammo through that I hated and eventually ended up handloading
anyway or buying quality ammo to get it to shoot and perform the way that I wanted it to.

[mazda3gun]

And I have an obnoxious "Buy it now while I have the money" kind of personality. So buying the chrome lined Saiga, or the like, is more financially/logically practical than buying an AR without chrome lined, selling the barrel, spending more money to buy a barrel, irons sights, red dot or 4x fixed scope, rails, fore grip, a few mags, gun case, and ammo.
I think I'd rather/prefer to tie up $1K in an AK and have more 'bling and ammo' than an AR will less attachments and ammo.

I suppose I should've made it clear that I was on a budget. Thought my blatant, yet subtle, hints would've cleared that up...

I love ARs and what they're capable of, but it seems to be more of an investment to get accuracy and reliability out of them versus the AK platform.
If I could get an AR with chrome lined barrel, rail, flash hider, and irons with a SOLID known reputation for $600....show me.

[tammons]

IMO just the opposite, but I like rifles, I can tear down, easily modify, swap calibers, sort of why I like savages.
No you wont do it for $600. You can have fun with an AK too and ammo is cheap, its just not as versatile.

[mazda3gun]

IMO just the opposite, but I like rifles, I can tear down, easily modify, swap calibers, sort of why I like savages.
No you wont do it for $600. You can have fun with an AK too and ammo is cheap, its just not as versatile.

Exactly why I have a Savage too. It's my precision hunting rifle.

I just don't have the funds to set up to reload right now, rather spend the money on a new gun and factory ammo instead.

[buxman66]

Mazda3gun, your on the correct path. You seem to get that some weapons are built for specific situations. You have your priorities straight in looking for a chrome lined barrel also. Its been said before that the chrome lined barrels advantage is with cleaning ability in the field. Some ppl claim better accuracy w/ the non chrome lined. But as been so articulating said, you prolly wont see any action w/it in S.E.Asia! Wow! Wonder where the AR was first used? Opinions are totally separate from facts, and nottotally rooted in facts, only opinions. I wish you luck in your search, I'm sure you find what your looking for. You seem to have your FACTS straight at least, which is more than I can say of some.

[Stockrex]

Examples of a what a 7.62x39 8m3 can do:



http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1386502

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...0&f=9&t=628818

http://www.texashuntingforum.com/for...Re_8m3_Carnage