AR or AK?

[snowgetter1]

Almost 20 years in the military and I have not seen an AR fail to function unless it was run over by a HETT at which point it was bent like a banana. And the AR is much more accurate. I have four and two are sub MOA. JMHO

Agree. The hype of AR reliability is born from initial issue M-16s in Vietnam. Have used an M16 and M4 myself in extreme conditions there are no reliability issues. Yes, you do have to clean it once in a while, but it will work. My last deployment to Afghanistan I was an advisor to an Afghan infantry battalion. We saw ALOT of combat in Helmand Province and I saw a lot of AKs break, jam, and fail. Problem, was Soldiers not cleaning them, firing pin breaks, or magazine failures mostly. Our team of 18 never had an M4 fail.

[Stockrex]

I am an ak fan, the problem I have with ak is finding a good 2 stage or single stage trigger
Other than ak rocks in both price and technology.
Look up aksarben and saiga
He is my husker hero .
I bought my saiga 308 for under $500,

[mazda3gun]

There's a Saiga 'Hunting Carbine' on GB for $444.95 that ends in less than hour. Imported by RWC?
Has chrome lined barrel, 7.63x39, 16" barrel, 10rd mag
I'm so tempted...

[AZ_GUN_NUT]

Without starting an argument, you can't do this to an AR15/M16 without having to strip it down and clean it first. They are built to tighter tolerances and will jam if not kept clean. An AK has much looser tolerances which allows you to get away with this. Yes an AR15 is more accurate and therefore a better platform for accuracy, but he's not looking for accuracy from the sounds of his statements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPbF0kKyc2c

[homefrontsniper]

Jp ctr-02

[mazda3gun]

AZ_NUT, as for accuracy...I feel that if ANY 'assault rifle' is accurate enough to get headshots/bodyshots every round fired @ 100-200yds, it's accurate. And both, the AR platform and AK platform, are capable of both with good ammo and steady hands -from my understanding.
I've heard and read from several sources that an AK is at least 2-3 MOA @ 200 yds. That's good enough for me to deer hunt with in the hills of KY even. There are more upgrades and add-ons for ARs, I know that, but I feel either one will be just as fun to tinker with.

Please correct me if anything I just said is wrong or slightly off kilter. I'm learning from you guys and humbled.

[mazda3gun]

homefrontsniper, again, I said if I spend over a grand for either one, it will be the Ruger SR556 or SR762. IMO, they're much sexier than any other AR, other than a FN SCAR, and I love anything Ruger!

[AZ_GUN_NUT]

AZ_NUT, as for accuracy...I feel that if ANY 'assault rifle' is accurate enough to get headshots/bodyshots every round fired @ 100-200yds, it's accurate. And both, the AR platform and AK platform, are capable of both with good ammo and steady hands -from my understanding.
I've heard and read from several sources that an AK is at least 2-3 MOA @ 200 yds. That's good enough for me to deer hunt with in the hills of KY even. There are more upgrades and add-ons for ARs, I know that, but I feel either one will be just as fun to tinker with.

Please correct me if anything I just said is wrong or slightly off kilter. I'm learning from you guys and humbled.

Exactly correct in my opinion.

[Stockrex]

FYI: 1stmarine posted his results with an ak in 233 on the highroad and he was getting sub moa.
With the curdy factory trigger without a sling I can keep a tennis ball sized group in rapid fire.
Get a short barrel ak

[buxman66]

I have purposely stayed out of this topic, but I think I'll plug my take on it. I had a colt A2 in 5.56 and traded it off for a chinese underfolder. All the arguments for both have been made, and I agree w/ both sides. For me....an ak is the only way to go for the 1.ballistics (mass and penetration mainly) 2.functionality (you can be a moron and run it) 3.reliability is incredible 4.simplicity designed for peasants so its not overly complicated to tear down. 5.rugged construction 'nuff said.

AR's have their place. In the hands of a person trained to perform w/it. That is EXACTLY why it is not in the hands of revolutionaries around the world.

Eta: there are junk AK'S out there. Do your research online a good research source is www.ak47world.com I believe. Chinese, Russian, Polish,....some yugo's, some bulgarian, czech's and some romanian. Research will point you to the true military factory made, rifles that were modified for American civilians.

[COplains]

With the expection of a couple AR's, I've never fired an M-16, M-14 or AK except in combat. When it hits the fan, rain, mud, whatever, I always grabbed the M-14. If it was within 1000yds and a problem, it was gone. Speaking as a former Marine and lifelong shooter.

[mazda3gun]

Thanks buxman66! That website was a lot of help, and a lot to take in(didn't format well in the browser, had to scroll sideways and down A LOT!). I now know to NOT buy a WASR! lol

I'm still deciding on which platform. Seems it's more difficult to get a kit for an AK over an AR -aka-I can piece together an AR easier than an AK. I'm not wanting to buy something outright, I'd prefer to not throw out a ton of cash right away.

[emtrescue6]

stockrex, my intended purpose is to, essentially, have a modern tactical 'beater' rifle. A do all kind of setup. I want to hunt, target, and decimate the zombie hordes when the time comes! I want something that can get dirty, rained on, knocked around, and still function properly and be reliable.
My Savages are for staying pretty and pristine

fireman, I know what you mean by backwoods. There are WAY TOO MANY manufacturers of AR parts now. Seems like I hear a new name every day!

If you want a beater rifle, the AK winds hands down. I have both and while I love my AR's, in a SHTF situation my AK will be on my shoulder. An AK will run in pretty much any condition, not true for AR's...That being said, I'd buy an AK already built...

I would also shy away from DPMS parts...I've had nothing but bad luck with their junk...and I have owned and built over 100 AR's probably... Mega Arms, Olympic Arms, Noveske, Spikes Tactical, LaRue Tactical, Aero Percision, Rainier Arms, Rock River...that's where 99% of my parts come from.

Building AR's is an addiction like the Savage flu...once you catch it, it's near uncureable.

[AZ_GUN_NUT]

Thanks buxman66! That website was a lot of help, and a lot to take in(didn't format well in the browser, had to scroll sideways and down A LOT!). I now know to NOT buy a WASR! lol

I'm still deciding on which platform. Seems it's more difficult to get a kit for an AK over an AR -aka-I can piece together an AR easier than an AK. I'm not wanting to buy something outright, I'd prefer to not throw out a ton of cash right away.

Back in the day you could buy a complete AK kit for around $150, plus your stripped receiver for another $75 and send it off to your favorite gunsmith to assemble for you and have a beautiful AK for under $500. Now with the ATF not allowing intact barrels to come through with the kits you have to buy a US made barrel. Plus kit prices have gone way up. Which is why I was saying earlier that it's cheaper to just buy an already assembled rifle than to build one these days. Of course that was also back in the day when you could buy a 1,000 rd case of Wolf ammo shipped to your door for $90 and go blasting for the weekend.

[thomae]

Arkansas or Alaska? Don't know. Never been fortunate enough to travel to either state. I am sure they both have their respective strong points.

(Whew! I've been itching to write that since the thread started...finally got it off my chest! )

Now .

[emtrescue6]

LOL....Alaska should be on everyones bucket list...I have a place up there and love is...Arkansas on the other hand...I've worked there often, never left anything there worth going back for...hahaha!

[mazda3gun]

LMAO! @ thomae! LOVE IT MAN!

[mazda3gun]

So, did some more searching, and a kit isn't very financially practical.

I can buy a Saiga for in the $400-500 range, which can easily be modified/upgraded as long as I get a stamped and not milled receiver. That figure leaves room for ammo too. Compared to the AR which would run $750 built for a very nice rig, with no ammo. It would be chrome lined and only gas, not piston driven.

Starting to look like an AK-47 style is winning.

[tammons]

Build an AR. They are basically kit guns and easy to assemble. There is really not much building to one.
Just buy the parts and put them together. I never had anyone show me anything and just downloaded instructions and a kit and bingo - rifle. FYI the firs ttime just buy a matched bolt and barrel.

Lots of small parts so if you order them separately keep a close track else you will be missing a spring or pin that will stall your effort.

Another plus is there are god knows how many Alternate calibers and it takes about 1 minute to swap an upper.

That said I dont know anything about AKS, except supposedly you can dunk them into the mud, take it out and they will fire.
That and they shoot side of barn accuracy supposedly.

I am building or should I say waiting on a 358 gremlin barrel from McGowen for my AR for more Whack.

[buxman66]

A chinese mak90 or polish pmkms (the underfolding designation) is what your looking for. Armslist.com is a good way to find one. Made in military quality, state run factories in both countries no less. Extremely durable. AK lovers have an expression, "minute of man" to describe their accuracy.they were literally designed that way intentionally.

[mazda3gun]

A Chinese mak90 or Polish pmkms? What's wrong with the Russian Saiga's? Other than they only take Surefire high cap mags, I've read nothing but good reviews so far.

The "minute of man" expression is pretty close to truth from my understanding of an AK. In my neck of the woods though, and where I live in KY, if I can group a grapefruit @ 100-200yds, I'm good enough to kill a deer. You would have to deliberately hunt a farm or powerline to find a shot further than 200yds, too many trees and mountains. Which is why I appreciate you folks that spend money on new barrels and high-dollar glass to shoot 1000yds competitions, kudos to you. ...

So is the Saiga a decent avenue to take or should I reroute?

[mazda3gun]

I feel my comparison has become similar to that of a '89 Toyota truck(AK) and 2014 GMC Sierra(AR)... The 'Yotas still going strong and doesn't look pretty, but gets the job done every time. The GMC is shiny and new and runs great, has all kinds of bells and whistles for it from the factory too, but it'll wear out faster than its 25yr old counterpart.

I'm actually a Ford/Honda guy myself.

[buxman66]

Saiga is a perfectly fine weapon. More expensive though, and for the money the chinese and polish were just some of many that can be had for less money and equal if not better than the saiga.saiga is certainly a fine weapon much to the same standards as the German/Austrian Sig.

Also I wouldn't pigeonhole myself to the notion that I only can use surefire mags. I'd want the flexibility of being able to run steel factory mags as well as tapco and the new magpuls. versatility.

[tk421991]

Saiga is a perfectly fine weapon. More expensive though, and for the money the chinese and polish were just some of many that can be had for less money and equal if not better than the saiga.saiga is certainly a fine weapon much to the same standards as the German/Austrian Sig.

I just bought a Saiga in .223 for coyote hunting. This one has a wooden, removable stock. I would buy another or a Vepr in a heatbeat if I had the money.

http://legionusainc.com/izsl-m-saiga-wood-.223-rem.html

AKs, generally speaking and especially Saigas, are cheaper and are definitely more right hand friendly than AR. I won't say that AKs are more reliable than ARs, but I will say that I've never seen an AK have an issue, and I nearly had a heart attack when I saw someone "mortar" (whack the rifle against a table) an AR to un-jam it. The AR was brand new too.

Since I'm right handed and cheap, I prefer AKs. Also, the noise from a short barreled AR (16", 20") is annoyingly loud to me. A lot of noise, not a lot of recoil. A 7.62x39 AK doesn't seem loud to me and neither does my M91/30 or my .30-06 110, and my .223 Saiga has a 22" barrel, so it's probably quieter (haven't shot it yet).

[buxman66]

.223 ak mags aren't exactly cheap nor are they readily available as the 7.62x39