6" groups?

***tim*** · 10-09-2013, 12:53 AM

I have the savage 111 trophy hunter. I had problems with groups last year but figured it was the scope it came with or me flenching so didn't think much of it. However I pulled it out this year to get ready for hunting season. Bought me a new Nikon prostaff and a led sled to help sight it in and now that I have removed what variables I can think of I still have 6" groups. I'm shooting 150gr hornady ammo and plan on trying some different ammo this weekend but not sure how the ammo could be that inconsistent.

**bootsmcguire** · 10-09-2013, 01:01 AM

What caliber is it?
About how many rounds fired?
What kind of cleaning intervals?
Is the barrel free floating?
Are your scope bases and rings properly tightened? The base screws often bottom out and don't properly hold the bases to the actions.
Are your action screws properly snugged down?

Just some thoughts for you and perhaps some info to make it easier for us to help with your troubles.

**bootsmcguire** · 10-09-2013, 01:20 AM

Ok that's a good start, what about these thoughts below:

Originally Posted by bootsmcguire

About how many rounds fired?
What kind of cleaning intervals?
Is the barrel free floating?

Also another thought, how does your crown look? any burrs or anything look out of place?

You may try a heavier bullet. Some people report having better luck with heavier bullets, perhaps a 180 or 200 grain load may be a better choice.

***tim*** · 10-09-2013, 01:05 AM

It is chambered in 300 win mag and yes all screws are installed with locktite and tight

***tim*** · 10-09-2013, 02:16 AM

It has 200-300 rounds through it and I followed the break in on Savage's website

***tim*** · 10-09-2013, 02:17 AM

Could a heavier bullet possibly shrink groups by inches?

stangfish · 10-09-2013, 06:48 AM

You are flinching(have someone watch you or video tape yourself) and you replaced a cheap scope with a cheap scope(I know the Nikon prostaff name is indicative of the highest quality, here comes the controversy. This is a win mag). The nokon Monarch is goo stuff thopugh.

Check the barrel and tang for free float. Loosen the action screws then retighten the screws starting with the forward action screw being snug then tightening the rear and then the front in that sequence. If the screws go from easy to hard in less than a turn you are good but if there is any "spring" then you have issues with the action bed.

**GaCop** · 10-09-2013, 06:52 AM

It may be as simple as trying different brands of ammunition to see what your rifle likes the best.

***tim*** · 10-09-2013, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by GaCop

It may be as simple as trying different brands of ammunition to see what your rifle likes the best.

I'm going to try some different ammo this weekend but Can different ammo really vary that much

**RP12** · 10-09-2013, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by *tim*

I'm going to try some different ammo this weekend but Can different ammo really vary that much

In a word, Yes. I once had a gun like that. I thought all was lost. Tried totally different bullet weight and bullet type, and it cleaned right up. It may be your situation, maybe not, but it's possible.

***tim*** · 10-09-2013, 06:53 AM

I'm shooting from a led sled so don't think I could be flenching that bad. I will recheck the action screw

**jhelmuth** · 10-14-2013, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by *tim*

I'm shooting from a led sled so don't think I could be flenching that bad. I will recheck the action screw

Originally Posted by *tim*

It has the original stock and its not the accu stock

There lies your "biggest" fault - the stock along with the recoil factor compounded with a trigger that is factory.

The flex in the stock alone opens up your goups as much as 3" all by itself, but when you add a factory trigger witha heavy recoil rifle you almost can't help the additional 2" from just plain ole buttstock whompin recoil to cuse the shot to pull (or push as the case might be with anticipation).

Get yourself a decent stock. Bets value out there are the Boyds stocks (something in a laminate and ideally with pillars and bedding would be a real bonus with the heavy hitters). Now that you've tamed the Savage beast (yup... pun fully intended), you should be able to better manage your trigger pull and since she won't be hittin you so hard hopefully the anticipation of that will subside to the extent that only the trigger will be to blame. Obviously if you can put in a trigger job things shoul also improve.

You rifle IS a sub MOA beast - but only if you can tame her!

Oh yeah... and find the right load too while you're fixin it.

**keeki** · 10-09-2013, 07:35 AM

Hmmm. Different ammo may help, but 6"? I doubt it. If your doing everything right and shooting groups that bad consistently, we have a problem. Follow Stangs advise on the bases and rings.

**earl39** · 10-09-2013, 08:53 AM

What stock is on it? If one of the cheap stocks it could be flexing against the barrel hence you lose your free floated barrel when you go to shoot it. Try it from a sandbag placed back under the lug area instead of the forearm.
As for different ammo helping the answer is absolutely. I bought my Nephew a little single shot 308 years ago and almost didn't give it to him until i tried 180gr bullets in it. It went from shotgun pattern to MOA with nothing but bullet weight change. That was with factory ammo.

***tim*** · 10-09-2013, 09:24 AM

It has the original stock and its not the accu stock

**Apache** · 10-09-2013, 12:08 PM

You may try another scope.....one that is known to be good. It is possible that the scope, even though it's brand new......and a Nikon to boot.....is bad.

It happened to me one time and drove me absolutely nuts! My situation was a little different in that my groups tightened up slightly after the new "bad" scope was put on.........it is also the reason I no longer buy the cheaper scopes anymore.

The only way I found it was bad was I put that rifle aside and moved that scope to another rifle that I KNEW shot well.....and it started shooting bad. Put the old scope back on it and it shot it old reliable self again......no more cheap scopes for me.

BTW.......For me Nikon does not fall into the cheap category for what it's worth. But they can have problems just like anybody else.

**twarren** · 10-10-2013, 08:20 AM

All good advice but only change one thing at a time.

sortafast · 10-10-2013, 10:50 AM

Things I would check: Is the barrel free floated (can you slip a dollar bill between the barrel and stock all the way to the chamber)? Is the receiver tight in the stock? Is the scope mounts and or rings loose? Is the tang of the receiver free floated (some strange internet voodoo happens when the tang isn't free floated. Don't know why but thats just the case. Is the crown of the muzzle in good shape? Have you tried a nicer scope on it? Check out what the twist rate of the barrel is and what the weight of the bullet is. Some weight/twist combos can do weird things. I see it was 150gr, that seems really light for a 300WM to me. Maybe bump it up closer to 200gr or so. But that will also make it a bit more painful to shoot, maybe.

All of these things are pretty easily correctable. I would try different ammo and a different scope/rings first. Do a little research and I am sure you can find a good ammo that would work with your barrel. I have had really good luck with fed fusion ammo. That stuff shot sub 1" groups for me in an old 30-06 that I wasn't expecting 2" out of.

davemuzz · 10-09-2013, 12:33 PM

6" groups now....different ammo could get you 2" groups. Yes...it is possible. However....for sure clean your barrel before you try any new ammo. Don't switch back 'n fourth with ammo without first cleaning the barrel. As a hand loader it's a proven fact that when you shoot the same bullet with different powders, you MUST clean the barrel before switching to the new powder or the group will not be a "true group.

Also, and I'm sure you have done this, but do a copper cleaning as well. It won't take much to copper up the 300 WSM at the speeds those bullets are being pushed at.

FWIW

Dave

**keeki** · 10-09-2013, 01:08 PM

I understand that all guns have their favorite ammo, but 6"? If a 300wm of mine shot 6" groups with 150gr bullets, I would be looking for a problem and not waste my money on ammo. 3" groups maybe, but I've never even shot a savage that shot that bad.lol

**bootsmcguire** · 10-09-2013, 11:06 PM

With factory ammo I have seen a night and day difference. My father has a 110LA 223 and it hated several name brands of factory ammo. Finally found it liked the 55gr Soft point Winchester white box stuff. None of the others would do better than 4" and 2 brands even had issues keeping inside of 12". Found the Win load and the groups went down to 3/4".

wrench man · 10-10-2013, 12:18 AM

I'd try the heavier ammo as suggested, my 110 270Winchester won't shoot ANY!!! (factory, hand load, ANY!) 130grn ammo worth beans, it shot 6" groups, a recrown, Timney trigger, three scopes and a glass bed job brought it down to 3"?, but it put's 150's sub MOA!??

sortafast · 10-10-2013, 01:22 AM

you sure you weren't shooting a mini-14 instead?

MrMajestic · 10-10-2013, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by sortafast

you sure you weren't shooting a mini-14 instead?

Hey now! FYI-My Accuracy Systems Inc. reworked Mini shoots sub MOA all day! Pick on another model! LOL

sortafast · 10-10-2013, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by MrMajestic

Hey now! FYI-My Accuracy Systems Inc. reworked Mini shoots sub MOA all day! Pick on another model! LOL

I had a mini that I threw a bunch of $$ at. Never got better than a couple inches at 100yds. I really want to buy one again soon. I plan on rebarreling it with a more better, heavier barrel and make my own side folded an such. Basically turn it into the rifle it should have been not the turd oil bill river made it into.