.223 load for deer?

[thermaler]

I recently tried the Atomic 168 match ammo for my 308 and was so impressed that I bought some Nosler 77gr 223 custom competition that I suspect will work at least as well as the 68 matchking loads.

[goinssr]

I can't believe that some here are advocating the use of target bullets on deer sized game. I'm sure that some of you have used them on deer with some degree of success but that does not make it okay for use. Just because the bullet has the weight for caliber that seems to be fine for deer does not mean that its construction is robust enough to cleanly take the animal in most all situations. Some will go through the deer and exit provided that it doesn't encounter any skeletal obstructions but will likely blow apart if it does and significantly increase the chance of only wounding and losing the animal. Have some respect for your quarry and use a bullet that is designed for the task and will provide a high degree of a humane kill.

[BoilerUP]

I can't believe that some here are advocating the use of target bullets on deer sized game.

I haven't seen anybody "advocating" using match bullets, simply sharing their experiences. OTOH, a number of folks have pointed toward 60gr Partitions, 64gr Bonded, 65gr Gameking or Barnes TSX.

Whitetail deer don't wear SAPI plates and they aren't any harder to kill than a human; you can put anything this side of a frangible varmint bullet into the heart/lungs or CNS and you'll have a clean kill every time.

While bullet construction *is* important...shot placement will ALWAYS trump bullet displacement. And when you are using a match bullet, shot placement is even more important - not unlike when hunting with a bow.

When I used the 80gr A-Max last year, it was only because my brother co-opted my preferred 260, leaving me with my 223AI as backup. I questioned the bullet's effectiveness much like you, which is why I limited myself to an unobstructed headshot. And I was totally blown away by the terminal effects of the bullet. I would have zero qualms using it on a once-in-a-lifetime Boone & Crockett deer...though admittedly it would not be my first choice.

The 77gr SMK/Nosler has been tested extensively due to its use in Mk.262 ammunition, and while they are match bullets I'm very confident in their ability to cleanly and ethically put down a whitetail. But I won't be doing any shoulder shots with them...

[dondlhmn]

Before you get too far into the .223 stuff for deer, you might want to check and see if that caliber is legal where you intend to hunt if you haven't checked already. The .223 is not legal in a lot of places, though I know of deer that have been taken with a .22 long rifle. The smaller the caliber and the less energy available on the target, the more important shot placement is!!

[shortactionsmoker]

I've killed 8 or 9 deer with a 223. Most of which were with the Winchester 64gr Power Point. All complete pass throughs, mostly double lung hits. With that being said, I'd opt for the 53TSX in 12 twist 223's and several other options for a rifle with a faster twist. I'd look at some of the heavier TTSX's, the Nosler 64gr BSB or one of the Swifts (62 or 75, depending on twist).

I've never had much luck with accuracy and a 60gr Partition.

Chose your shot and keep the range to a sensible distance. The 223 will do just fine.

[mnhntr]

I killed a few with Hornady 75gr BTHP match bullets and a few with 55gr Spire point.

[goinssr]

I just loaded up some 65 gr. Sierra Game Kings over 25.0 grs. of Winchester 748. Can't wait to get to the range this week and see how they shoot in my Mini 14.

[mnhntr]

my stepson got his first deer a few days ago with my handloaded 75gr BTHP. With a sharp quartering away shot at 85 yds the bullet traveled in one piece through the guts liver and one lung ending in the off side shoulder. Deer went 65 yds.

[jwrowland77]

That's awesome. Pure joy right there.

[rl550]

I use a 62 gr. barnes tsx with 25 grs of varget. I've shot 5 deer with this bullet/load combo and the farthest any of them ran was 50yds. I've never recovered a bullet even on quartering shots. This bullet blows right through shoulders and keeps going.

[thermaler]

I use a 62 gr. barnes tsx with 25 grs of varget. I've shot 5 deer with this bullet/load combo and the farthest any of them ran was 50yds. I've never recovered a bullet even on quartering shots. This bullet blows right through shoulders and keeps going.

Size of holes? I figure I couldn't go wrong with either the 62 or 70 grs.

[rl550]

Size of holes? I figure I couldn't go wrong with either the 62 or 70 grs.

A 22 size going in and about 3/8" exit. I never took any pics of entrance or exits i'll do that next time and post them. Don't know if I'll have the opportunity this year, i've been hunting with my 300 black out i built. The 62 gr. tsx is awesome and the 223 does very little meat damage. I personally think it doesn't get enough credit for a deer round when proper bullets are used. Last year I shot a doe three times because I wasn't patient enough to let her go down. all thre shots were through the vitals. It only took maybe 20 seconds and she went down. Much like an archery kill , zip one through the lungs and they run maybe 50yds stand for maybe thirty seconds and fall over stone dead. Inever tried the 70 gr. wasnt sure it would stabalize from my 1 in 9 twist , but it would work great. I used the 53 gr tsx already and it worked just fine too.

[OFFSHORE]

The .223 Rem is a very underestimated round for sure. I have eradicated/killed a recorded 500+ nuisance wild hogs for my job. They have ranged in size form footballs to 55 gallon barrels with legs, at distances from point blank in traps to 235 yds. (being my furthest) in open pastures. Neck shots being my favorite, but I have made shots from all angles. I have two rifles I use, a custom Rem 700 and when I'm out of the public's eye, a custom Bushy AR-15 (seems like these days folks are spooky when they see "The Black Rifle"!). In the 700 I load 75gr. Scircco II long in the lands on top of 24.7gr. Varget. The AR-15 gets the Sierra 65gr. SBT #1395 on top of 24.3gr. R-10X. With either of these loads and proper shot placement there is no deer in the 200 yd.+/- range I would not hesitate to put a slug into. Recently I shot a good size boar (180/200 lb.) at 165 yds. slightly quartering away with the Scircco. . .the bullet entered about 10 inches behind the left shoulder and came to rest through the right shoulder bone in a big knot under the hide. The whole shoulder and femur bone was in multiple pieces! His front legs buckled under him and he bulldozed for about 10 feet then laid over kicking - DONE. Bullet still weighted 52.7grs. with a nasty mushroom! ! ! I have also shot many deer in strawberry and melon fields and orange groves at night as crop damage nuisance animals using these rounds with awesome success. With proper shot placement and a bullet of good construction, the .223 Rem is a solid performer on deer and hogs out to 250 yards in my book! You should see what I do with my "Neighborhood Rifle". . .22K Hornet 45gr. Barnes TSX on top of 13.7gr. Lil' Gun - WICKED! ! ! Happy Hunting!

[rl550]

The .223 Rem is a very underestimated round for sure. I have eradicated/killed a recorded 500+ nuisance wild hogs for my job. They have ranged in size form footballs to 55 gallon barrels with legs, at distances from point blank in traps to 235 yds. (being my furthest) in open pastures. Neck shots being my favorite, but I have made shots from all angles. I have two rifles I use, a custom Rem 700 and when I'm out of the public's eye, a custom Bushy AR-15 (seems like these days folks are spooky when they see "The Black Rifle"!). In the 700 I load 75gr. Scircco II long in the lands on top of 24.7gr. Varget. The AR-15 gets the Sierra 65gr. SBT #1395 on top of 24.3gr. R-10X. With either of these loads and proper shot placement there is no deer in the 200 yd.+/- range I would not hesitate to put a slug into. Recently I shot a good size boar (180/200 lb.) at 165 yds. slightly quartering away with the Scircco. . .the bullet entered about 10 inches behind the left shoulder and came to rest through the right shoulder bone in a big knot under the hide. The whole shoulder and femur bone was in multiple pieces! His front legs buckled under him and he bulldozed for about 10 feet then laid over kicking - DONE. Bullet still weighted 52.7grs. with a nasty mushroom! ! ! I have also shot many deer in strawberry and melon fields and orange groves at night as crop damage nuisance animals using these rounds with awesome success. With proper shot placement and a bullet of good construction, the .223 Rem is a solid performer on deer and hogs out to 250 yards in my book! You should see what I do with my "Neighborhood Rifle". . .22K Hornet 45gr. Barnes TSX on top of 13.7gr. Lil' Gun - WICKED! ! ! Happy Hunting!

Man what a job to have! Happy hunting to you too! I want to take a deer at 100 + yards with the 223 but haven't had the opportunity yet. The farthest was only 75 yds. I also wouldn't hesistate to shoot 200 yds. My "neighbor hood" rifles are a suppressed 223 savage i built and a 300 blackout I built on a savage action. The deer I took this past monday never new what hit her the bullet impact was louder than the shot from my 300 blk. with a sub sonic load.

[JASmith]

OFFSHORE, you are describing excellent success with the .223 Remington and I applaud that.

I submit, however, that there are two very good reasons for your success.

The first is that you hunt and shoot a lot. Shooting 500+ hogs implies at least twenty-five boxes of ammunition. This means that you have plenty of practice with your rifle and know where the bullets will go. Most hunters don't have that practice and are not as likely to get a solid hit in the vital zone, especially when the shot is not taken from the side quarter.

The second is that you have developed a feel for where the bullet must be placed over a large range of presentations of the animal. Very few hunters have, or can, do that without the benefit of a lot of successful, and a few unsuccessful, shots on game.

Another factor is that you seem to be using good and heavy bullets for the .223 and that improves the chances of success when you have done your part. I would submit, however, that the 65 gr SBT might be a bit marginal for the larger hogs.

You might want to consider the heaviest X-bullets or a larger caliber if a good percentage of your animals exceed 250 lbs in weight.

(for details and background, see the discussion about Ideal Bullet Weight)

[rl550]

I don't care what caliber you use you still need to put the bullet into the vitals. I 'm sorry to say , but not afraid to share that I hit a doe 10 yrs. ago to far back with my 300 wsm. Well it wasn't fun or pretty , but i got her. She went farther than any deer i ever shot with the .223. I used to think bigger is better.

I have killed alot of deer and other critters with a wide array of different weapons and now (because i butcher myself) I want minimal loss of meat. I don't like wasting any and it's nice not having the mess of blood shot meat.

Shot placement and bullet selection is key. Before my dad ever let me hunt he went over tons of hunting magazine pictures with me. He 'd ask "where would you shot this one". Going over all various shot angles. This should be part of hunter education in my opinion.

[OFFSHORE]

JASmith,

You are very correct. . .and by no means do I want people to think the .223 Rem is a miracle round. Because it is not, and YES, there are far better. I just happen to have rifles that I am VERY COMFORTABLE shooting, and for whatever reason, this is the round/caliber that I am REQUIRED to use in the urban interface areas these animals inhabit. I have had the nasty shots that I wish I never caressed the trigger on. . .but, if you hunt long enough its going to happen to all - period! You are also correct about the Barnes TSX bullets. . .I just wish my little Rem 700 liked them and I had more mag length and case capacity to shoot them in my AR platform. They are AWESOME bullets! ! ! My 7mm Dakota and .338-378 LOOOOOVE them, and so does my little 22K Hornet. But that Swift Scirocco 75gr. pill is a tough little dude! And holds 1/2 MOA in my rifle. . .I really couldn't ask for much more of a .224 bullet. I had a .22/250 culling rifle that I started using this bullet with, and there wasn't much that was safe from me if I could see it. . .600 yrd. armadillo shots were my favorite - LOL. Sadly that rifle was stolen out of my truck while I was paying for fuel. But, like I said in the previous post - With proper shot placement and a bullet of good construction, the .223 Rem is a solid performer on deer and hogs out to 250 yards in my book! Know your rifle. . .know your load. . .and most of all KNOW YOUR OWN LIMITATIONS. It is only fair to the critters we go after. Good luck.

[thermaler]

Just loaded my first batch of Barnes 70 gr tsx with RL15--bit of compression going on towards the upper end of the load range and had to crimp them. Gonna see what my 1:7 twist Core 15 AR thinks of em.

[OFFSHORE]

Thermaler,

I have a 26" #4 Hart tube in a 1-7 twist on my Rem 700. . .that is the route to go (1-7 twist rate) for sure with the 70gr.+ pills. I wish it liked the Barnes bullets, but it just doesn't group them in what I require in my rigs. AR platforms are also not forgiving on COL and powder capacity, which doesn't allow the full potential of that combonation. Good luck on the range and keep us posted!

[thermaler]

Thermaler,

I have a 26" #4 Hart tube in a 1-7 twist on my Rem 700. . .that is the route to go (1-7 twist rate) for sure with the 70gr.+ pills. I wish it liked the Barnes bullets, but it just doesn't group them in what I require in my rigs. AR platforms are also not forgiving on COL and powder capacity, which doesn't allow the full potential of that combonation. Good luck on the range and keep us posted!

Will do. I also am loading up a 300 win mag brew which I've been meaning to test for a while. And a 44 mag...and a 6.8 spc. BTW--have you tried the barnes LRX? I tested a batch through my 308 win axis and it groups noticeably better than the tsx's ever have for me.

[OFFSHORE]

Yes, I did try the LXR 127gr. in my 6.5 Swede and it did good, but the A-Max is a one whole wonder in my rifle. And YES to all. . .I hunt medium game with the A-Max bullet with great success! Have you tried the .44 cal. Partitions of Swifts? I get deeper penitration from them on heavy critters. . .with .44 size holes you won't need much more expansion. Have fun with your "cook'n" - LOL.

Will do. I also am loading up a 300 win mag brew which I've been meaning to test for a while. And a 44 mag...and a 6.8 spc. BTW--have you tried the barnes LRX? I tested a batch through my 308 win axis and it groups noticeably better than the tsx's ever have for me.

[JASmith]

. .I hunt medium game with the A-Max bullet with great success! ...

The 123 gr A-Max developed a very strong reputation among the 6.5 Grendel community before Hornady introduced the 123 gr SST. Both have harvested game out to beyond 500 yards in this seemingly very small cartridge. The results of Gel tests with both show that the bullets hold together well up to at least the 2700 ft/sec the test series covered.

Their exterior ballistics and reloading data also seem to map together very well.

The interlock feature in the SST, however, helps keep the bullet together better at higher velocities.

Apologies for the further digression from the OP...

[6mmBR_Shooter]

I've killed 8 or 9 deer with a 223. Most of which were with the Winchester 64gr Power Point. Chose your shot and keep the range to a sensible distance. The 223 will do just fine.

A friend of mine swears by the same bullet. He uses this through an AR and has had good success with the smaller deer we had in the southeast.

[bflee]

I also used the Winchester for several years in my AR before I bought a dedicated deer rifle here in eastern NC. All shots were under 200 and most were head/high neck shots as I hunt from nice stands with a good rest. It drops them dead every time if you hit, and they aren't wounded if you do miss. You also get all the meat.

[OFFSHORE]

I also used the Winchester for several years in my AR before I bought a dedicated deer rifle here in eastern NC. All shots were under 200 and most were head/high neck shots as I hunt from nice stands with a good rest. It drops them dead every time if you hit, and they aren't wounded if you do miss. You also get all the meat.

Gotta love those crimson & cream colored rainbows from them head shots ! ! ! Yes, I know. . .I'm a sick ******* .