CRYOGENIC Treatments to Barrels

[emtrescue6]

I have done some playing with cryogenic freezing of barrels, and I must say there is something there to it. To anyone that would say that Cryogenic freezing is "snake oil" I would ask them if they have ever heard of Krieger barrels? John Krieger must think there is something to this process, as ALL Krieger barrels are cryogenically frozen before they are machined/drilled. Krieger use to cryogenically freeze the barrels twice, once before machining, and then after, because they believe so much in the process. They stopped double freezing barrels as of extra cost, time, and little added benefit of freezing then a second time. I think John Krieger knows something about barrels, as right now there is a 16 month wait for a barrel blank, and look at equipment list on Benchrest match's, where the highest amount of accuracy on the planet is at, and you will see more Krieger barrels than anything else.

The benefits to a barrel that is cryogenically frozen, is it will machine smoother. (Ask any machinist who has machined both materials.) With this smoother machining you will get less tool push off, and a batter product. The barrel will also gain a couple of points in hardness, as an additional benefit. This would also attribute to less tool wear. As far as other claims, of them being easier to clean, this is a subjective question, I would say in my experience, the brush, and patches push through a bit smoother. I would not say that they collect any less/more material between shots.

On better barrel life, this again is a subjective question, as some barrels just last longer than others and there is no rhyme or reason to it. I have talked to people that have claimed that they have. On velocity , this again is a subjective question, and my experience say no they shoot about the same velocity. On accuracy, again this is subjective. The problem is with these questions is that each barrel has its own personality, and every one will behave differently. To honestly evaluate this process, it would take a large test with at least 50 identical barrels (25 of each ) shot with the same cases, powder, primers, bullets as so forth. Most companies don't have the wants or means to do this.

One thing I can say about cryogenic treatment, that can not be said about the others is, I have never heard of a single case where this detrimentally hurt the barrel. Either people say that they saw an improvement, or they did not, but I have never heard of anyone saying that a barrel shot worse. (I have heard a quite few stories of people having barrels salt bath nitrating/ meloniting, and the barrels being forever ruined.)

Now with that all said, cryogenic works in barrels, but it other areas, I would say it is a waste of time, such as triggers, springs, or actions. These parts just do not see a benefit to the process. I would state that prior to being broached, formed, or made they might see a slight benefit to it. An action only needs to hold the barrel, and the sighting device, in a consistent manner. Accuracy happens in the barrels.

I don't want to argue with you about Krieger barrels and whether or not they cryo treat barrels...last I heard they stopped cryo'ing barrels in 2003 due to some litigation. I have a Krieger on a 257 Roberts AI and another on a 25 Souper...both done around 2005...anyway...nowhere on Krieger's website does it mention cryo treating of barrels anymore. Not saying they don't do it but I could find no mention of it anywhere on their website anymore, but if you google "Krieger Barrel cryogenic" you will find several comments to their not doing it anymore...

[82boy]

but if you google "Krieger Barrel cryogenic" you will find several comments to their not doing it anymore...

I did a search on yahoo and pulled up some interesting information.
Here is an article in Sep 10 2010 Guns and ammos' rifle shooter magazine. by Jon Sundra
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2010/...g_rsgunsmith1/
He states in his article:
"Some makers, like John Krieger, for example, who produces both cut- and button-rifled barrels, have embraced cryogenic stress relieving, but he makes no accuracy claims for it. Others-mostly folks who are not barrel makers but who are in the cryo business, do claim accuracy benefits for freezing the bejesus out of steel. Krieger is convinced that cryo produces a steel that is easier on tools and machines better. Those who use it all agree, of course, and those who don’t say it doesn’t.


Before cryoing, Krieger told me in a recent conversation, he would often scrap three or four barrels out of 10 because the deep-hole drilling operation would produce blanks having more than .005-inch run-out when turned on centers. It’s hard to believe that you can start drilling a hole smack in the middle of a 11⁄4-inch-diameter steel bar and after boring 28-30 inches, actually expect to come out within .005 inch of dead center at the other end!


But good barrel makers do, and now that he’s cryoing, John tells me his scrap rate because of excessive run-out is virtually nil. As with all aspects of barrel-making, the methods used to first drill the hole in the bar stock, then ream it for smoothness, vary with the maker. Some drill and/or ream on the horizontal, some on the vertical. Some rotate only the drill and/or reamer, some rotate only the barrel, others still rotate both-obviously in opposite directions."

[emtrescue6]

I did a search on yahoo and pulled up some interesting information.
Here is an article in Sep 10 2010 Guns and ammos' rifle shooter magazine. by Jon Sundra
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2010/...g_rsgunsmith1/
He states in his article:
"Some makers, like John Krieger, for example, who produces both cut- and button-rifled barrels, have embraced cryogenic stress relieving, but he makes no accuracy claims for it. Others-mostly folks who are not barrel makers but who are in the cryo business, do claim accuracy benefits for freezing the bejesus out of steel. Krieger is convinced that cryo produces a steel that is easier on tools and machines better. Those who use it all agree, of course, and those who don’t say it doesn’t.


Before cryoing, Krieger told me in a recent conversation, he would often scrap three or four barrels out of 10 because the deep-hole drilling operation would produce blanks having more than .005-inch run-out when turned on centers. It’s hard to believe that you can start drilling a hole smack in the middle of a 11⁄4-inch-diameter steel bar and after boring 28-30 inches, actually expect to come out within .005 inch of dead center at the other end!


But good barrel makers do, and now that he’s cryoing, John tells me his scrap rate because of excessive run-out is virtually nil. As with all aspects of barrel-making, the methods used to first drill the hole in the bar stock, then ream it for smoothness, vary with the maker. Some drill and/or ream on the horizontal, some on the vertical. Some rotate only the drill and/or reamer, some rotate only the barrel, others still rotate both-obviously in opposite directions."

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