Ideas on Straightening Up Case Necks

[kelbro]

Smart man, you will thank your self a thousand time latter.

Please elaborate. I have been using them for years to create very concentric brass and never had to deal with a donut. Combined with annealing and a Redding body die, I don't see how you could get much better. My seating tension is uniform, my verticals are incredibly tight. Much better than when using bushing dies.

[82boy]

Please elaborate. I have been using them for years to create very concentric brass and never had to deal with a donut. Combined with annealing and a Redding body die, I don't see how you could get much better. My seating tension is uniform, my verticals are incredibly tight. Much better than when using bushing dies.

How do you know your brass is concentric? How do you know your setting tension is uniformed? what is the AVERAGE group size your are shooting? You might be surprised how much better it can all get.

[kelbro]

How do you know your brass is concentric? How do you know your setting tension is uniformed? what is the AVERAGE group size your are shooting? You might be surprised how much better it can all get.

I have a couple of concentricity gauges.

I measure seating force on my press.

Group size at what range? Typically 1/4 to 1/3 MOA out to 200 but most of my shooting is mid or long F-Class. Never over 3/4 MOA out to 1K.

Maybe it's a BR thing?

Love those Forster seaters!

[82boy]

I measure seating force on my press.

And how do you do this?

[kelbro]

And how do you do this?

Take a look at the K&M arbor press with the force option if you are really interested.

I don't use that press as often any more as I have developed a pretty good 'feel' for when the force is less or more. Using the K&M showed me what to look for.

Now, back to my original request. Why do you feel that the bushing dies are better? Are you shooting better scores with them?

Personally, I have several thousands of rounds history with both methods and did not see a measurable difference.

[82boy]

Now, back to my original request. Why do you feel that the bushing dies are better? Are you shooting better scores with them?

To start not all bushing dies are created equal, I find that the one popular company that mass produces them makes the worse offenders, as they are sloppy built, with the bushing rattling around, and that they are improperly made, and need modification to properly size the case.

Now with all that said moving onto the lee collet dies, if what your saying is truthful, you would be the first person I have ever herd of that is measuring there end product, and not having problems. On the other side of things, with annealing, running through body dies, and everything else, it is just WAY too much work. Going further, I find that neck sizing and using a body die prematurely work hardens the brass, and that with a properly set up FL die the brass last longer, with less work needed. I have also done both methods of neck sizing, and FL sizing and have found that FL sizing makes a round more accurate, that is repeatable. I have found that the chances of having an unexplained flyer, is much greater with neck sizing. My experiences with the Lee cullet dies, have not bee favorable, and running the rounds over a concentricity gauge, I could never produce a round that had good run out, let alone by design of the collet die, it produces a donut, with repeated use. It could be that your fixing these problems with annealing, but I don't anneal my brass. With that added, I shoot competitive Benchrest, and have shot many match's all over, and I have never seen or hear of anyone of them using a lee collet die. I have asked many other accomplished reloaders/shooters, and never found any of them using a lee die. For many it is a running joke, asking someone if they use a lee die.
I have yet to see anyone shoot a 5 shoot 100 yard group under .1 with a Lee Collet die.

[fgw_in_fla]

Stop making your ammo like this....

[kelbro]

Good info. Thanks. Never shot a .1 (twice in a row) , same as most people, so I'm open to suggestions!

It was the Redding dies that I used (223, 223AI, 243AI, 308, 6mmBR) and then set aside. Sloppy and inconsistent bushings in half of them. What brand of bushing dies do you recommend?

Not sure about the fliers. at 800, 900, or 1000yds, I always blame those on a condition change :). Still, I don't see obvious fliers like you see at 100yds.

Annealing after each firing has been the key for me. Consistency is measurably improved. Good body dies combined with reasonably tight chambers do not work harden brass. I get many, many loads out of a set of Lapua brass and I'm not running 'light' loads.

I'm not a Lee fanboy. Most of their stuff appears cheap to me. The collet die is one of very few Lee parts on my bench. If they didn't produce really consistent brass, they wouldn't be on my bench because like you said, it's an extra step. I have heard that all of the majors have collet dies developed waiting for the patent to expire.

I don't shoot BR but I am always listening to how the BR guys do things. I think that although wind-reading is the most important part of F-Class, the handloading is right up there in importance.

To start not all bushing dies are created equal, I find that the one popular company that mass produces them makes the worse offenders, as they are sloppy built, with the bushing rattling around, and that they are improperly made, and need modification to properly size the case.

Now with all that said moving onto the lee collet dies, if what your saying is truthful, you would be the first person I have ever herd of that is measuring there end product, and not having problems. On the other side of things, with annealing, running through body dies, and everything else, it is just WAY too much work. Going further, I find that neck sizing and using a body die prematurely work hardens the brass, and that with a properly set up FL die the brass last longer, with less work needed. I have also done both methods of neck sizing, and FL sizing and have found that FL sizing makes a round more accurate, that is repeatable. I have found that the chances of having an unexplained flyer, is much greater with neck sizing. My experiences with the Lee cullet dies, have not bee favorable, and running the rounds over a concentricity gauge, I could never produce a round that had good run out, let alone by design of the collet die, it produces a donut, with repeated use. It could be that your fixing these problems with annealing, but I don't anneal my brass. With that added, I shoot competitive Benchrest, and have shot many match's all over, and I have never seen or hear of anyone of them using a lee collet die. I have asked many other accomplished reloaders/shooters, and never found any of them using a lee die. For many it is a running joke, asking someone if they use a lee die.
I have yet to see anyone shoot a 5 shoot 100 yard group under .1 with a Lee Collet die.