6mm WSM Pic

[bootsmcguire]

Well I have finally gotten all the loading components, dies, and tools that I need to start necking down and turning my brass, so of course I had to put together a dummy round. I just love the way this round looks in comparision to other 6mm calibers and I thought I'd post up a pic here just for fun. Pictured below are a few other rounds for comparision.

From right to left: 6BR Norma with 58gr Z-Max, 243 Win with 58gr V-Max, 243 Ackley Improved with 58gr Z-Max, and the 6mm WSM with a 105 A-Max.



Doesn't that thing just look crazy compared to the others!

[snowgetter1]

That should push the 105 pretty good. I have a 243 wssm and love it, but that thing is cool. I have thought about a 25 WSM several times, but never pulled the trigger on it. Where did you get the dies for it??

[bootsmcguire]

Dies were actually pretty simple. Redding 270WSM FL-Bushing Die and a Hornady 243WSSM Seater. Just got several bushings to be able to neck down the brass. Then turn the necks and final size and presto...6WSM.

[earl39]

The words "barrel burner" come to mind but it should sling that 105 right on down range.

[snowgetter1]

I sure hope you have a chrono. I can't wait to see the results.

[jibben]

LOL I have the same sickness! I have the first three and thought about the forth, but went 6.5wsm, waiting on the bbl.

[scope eye]

When you know your barrel has a limited life span, from the get go you tend to be more conservative with it, and use it for a more specific uses less plinking and trying stuff just to goof off, it really works out great if you have some backup in your arsenal, I defiantly would not recommend such a limited life span rig, if you are just starting out and have one or two to choose from, when you open up the safe, but if you can get your hands on one there is nothing like it.

Tanks Dean

[bootsmcguire]

I have the 6BR and 243AI for most of my plinking and target work and the 243AI for coyotes and pdogs, so they will still see the majority of my 6mm shooting, but a serious overbore was just to tempting to pass up. Once the barrel arrives the real fun will begin.

snowgetter,I do have a chrony I got from a member here, but I have only had it out a couple of times and couldn't get it to pick up the bullet. I need to play with it more. Probably needed sunnier days. If I can get it to work (or the operator learns the unit better) I will get some results up once this gets together.

Dean you are correct on the limited uses. I planned with this one that this 1st barrel would probably see a short life and I figured I would set it up for bench and distance shooting to facilitate the R&D phases of this round, and then step up and build another in a year or two that would be a bit lighter so it could see field uses assuming I get satisfactory results with this one. Although the wildcat building bug is starting to take hold, so there is a good chance I'll end up working on another idea I have before making a 2nd barrel for this. Who knows.

jibben, I too had thought on a 6.5WSM for awhile, but I am geared up for 6mm as far as components go that this just sounded better for me and just plain fun. When I do get around to a 6.5mm round I am most likely going to go 6.5x284 since I already have the Redding 3-die set and some brass that I have picked up slowly prepping for it as deals have popped up.

[scope eye]

For all those folks worried about barrel burning, It's not they end of the world, all you need to do is have it rethroated which involves trimming 1/2 inch of the barrel and rechamber it, that's all, it costs about $75.00 and it is as new or better, cause the rifling is already broken in.

Tanks Dean


PS: so you can do that at least 4 times to the same barrel, you will be fed up of that caliber before you wear out the barrel.

[snowgetter1]

it costs about $75.00 and it is as new or better, cause the rifling is already broken in.

Tanks Dean


PS: so you can do that at least 4 times to the same barrel, you will be fed up of that caliber before you wear out the barrel.

Now you have me wanting one too.

[sinman]

For all those folks worried about barrel burning, It's not they end of the world, all you need to do is have it rethroated which involves trimming 1/2 inch of the barrel and rechamber it, that's all, it costs about $75.00 and it is as new or better, cause the rifling is already broken in.

Tanks Dean


PS: so you can do that at least 4 times to the same barrel, you will be fed up of that caliber before you wear out the barrel.

Depends on how the barrel is setup to begin with, most factory barrels(contour) for a Savage can't be set back 1/2"

[bootsmcguire]

Very true sinman. If a person is planning ahead, a staight bull or larger contour would easily allow for multiple set backs if needed.

[joe h]

Smokin! That should be crazy fast!
And here I thought I was going big when I built a 6mmAckley pushing a 75gr at 3850fps! That thing will probably push those 105's at that speed. Lol
Let us know how it goes!

[bootsmcguire]

For somethings the "B.B.B." plan works out well. "Bigger, Badder, Better". Ever since I built my 243AI I have been slowly looking at other options to push the 95 - 105 grain bullets. I love the flat shooting I get with the 243AI and 58gr V-Max's so I wanted to build something that could get me close to that with a 95 - 105 bullet. Strongly considered the 6-06AI and even the 6mm Rem-AI, but I didn't think the 6mm-Rem-AI would cut the mustard, so it was down to the 6-06AI and the 6mm WSM and since start up costs were so similar as far as dies and stuff, I figured go with the WSM for a greater capacity. If you're gonna go, might as well go all out if you can. I can't wait to get the barrel back and start assembly.

[bootsmcguire]

Barrel arrived about a week and a half ago from www.apachegunworks.com. Barrel looks great, machining and finish look great. Got it on my action and set in the stock. Did an accutrigger conversion (its a Stevens 200 LA) and of course added one of my custom bolt handles.

I am going to try and get some ammo assembled tonight. I have been stalling on it, try to pick up more powder and magnum primers. I only had a couple hundred Magnum primers on hand (since I don't shoot my 7 RM much other than around hunting season) and my supply of RL22 had dwindled down to about 1/2lb or so since it too is only used for the 7 RM. Luckily I have come across a 1000 LR magnum primers and a couple lbs of H1000 (not my first pick, but due to limited supplies out there for purchse you gotta take what you can get). Gonna start with maybe a grain under max load for the 240 Weatherby and work up. The 240 case is roughly 15-20% smaller than the WSM case and loaded to lower pressures, so this should be a good starting point. If the weather holds out, might get to shoot it this weekend, but guys at work said they thought it was going to rain this weekend. We'll hafta wait and see.

[bootsmcguire]

Well managed to get out and run a rough ladder test. Was overcast so I didn't get to use the Chrony (dang it). Ran charges at 1.0 grain intervals. Here are some pics. The center "special" dot is 1.450" in diameter. These loads are 105 A-Max's seated touching the lands over H1000 powder and a Rem 9-1/2 Mag Primer. The barrel is a Green Mountain Barrels blank, 1-9"twist, 28" long, almost bull contour.

Here is the 1st 5 shot group. The group was 1.060" measured outside to outside of the farthest shots which would make a Center to center grouping of .817". Best 3 was out-to-out of .510 for a center to center of .267".


1.580" out-to-out for a Center to center of 1.337". I pulled that last bottom shot for sure. Kinda pulled the other low one, but.....


.627" out-to-out for a center to center of .384" with the best three (which was the 1st 3 of this group down the pipe) measureing .166" center to center.


.946" out-to-out for a .703" center to center with the best three at .400" center to center. The first 2 of this group tried to almost go through the same hole.


I got absolutly no preasure signs with any of these. Easy extraction, and primers looked great. I think I am going to load some more of the 61.0gr load and see if that group was a fluke or not. Also going to load some more up for a ladder string going up a couple more grains, since I'll bet I am still on the low side of what she can do, without Chrony info I am not sure.

I will say that this gun is about 2lbs heavier than my 243AI, both wearing duramaxx LA stocks, this 6WSM has a sharper recoil to it. It's probably a fair bit snappier than my 12FV 308.

[TC260]

I got absolutly no preasure signs with any of these. Easy extraction, and primers looked great. I think I am going to load some more of the 61.0gr load and see if that group was a fluke or not. Also going to load some more up for a ladder string going up a couple more grains, since I'll bet I am still on the low side of what she can do, without Chrony info I am not sure.

When working up loads, especially for wildcats, a chrony is my favorite indicator of what's going on. Heavy bolt lift, sticky extraction, etc are really indicators that the yield strength of the brass has been exceeded not that the designed working pressure of the gun/cartridge has been exceeded.

[yobuck]

When working up loads, especially for wildcats, a chrony is my favorite indicator of what's going on. Heavy bolt lift, sticky extraction, etc are really indicators that the yield strength of the brass has been exceeded not that the designed working pressure of the gun/cartridge has been exceeded.

maybe i missed something but why would a chrony be needed to indicate pressure signs?
regardless of what caused it a heavy bolt lift to me is a sign of pressure. so is a blown primer.
no doubt some brass will fail before others but that is still pressure with that particular brass.
other than giving a ballpark on velocity and extreme spread numbers i personaly consider them about useless.

[nuclabuyer]

So if load up some rounds like 58gr 59gr 60gr 61gr 62gr etc, at some point the bullets are going to stop getting faster. Which then you would say you aren't getting any advantage for the additional powder you are burning. So if your load of 60gr and 61gr shoot the same velocity, then you are just adding pressure and wasting the additional powder (generally speaking). I would say that it is more of finding the effective limit to your reloads. Some rounds you will gain velocity until you run into pressure you can see on the case via flattened primers or sticky bolt, sometimes you will run into a velocity limit before you ever get to pressure signs. It is more just another tool to get as much out of a round as possible.

This is at least how I use it.
Hope that helps, and if I am wrong some one else please chime in.

[bootsmcguire]

Well assuming that the wether cooperates on my next outting (hopefully this weekend) and we don't have any clouds, I'll try to include some Chrony Data with my next batch of targets.

I think this barrel has some real potential. That 61.0 grain group got my attention with the 1st 3 shots of that group making a .161" center to center spread. I'll take that all day if it can be realativly consistant.

[scope eye]

Yes after awhile there is little gain in speed, when you start reaching max pressure, instead of they energy pushing the bullet forward, they energy is deforming the case and primers, and other chaotic stuff that are going inside the case, I don't think I have shot a under max load in ten years, so I know this from experience.

Dean

[TC260]

maybe i missed something but why would a chrony be needed to indicate pressure signs?
regardless of what caused it a heavy bolt lift to me is a sign of pressure. so is a blown primer.
no doubt some brass will fail before others but that is still pressure with that particular brass.

A chronograph is useful because there's a strong correlation between velocity and pressure. Short of having actual pressure testing equipment, the best we can do is correlate velocity with data that is pressure tested. That's why reloading manuals include velocity with their data. Our specific numbers won't be exactly the same but it's a lot more information than just shooting blind until a round sticks. Usually with a wildcat there isn't pressure tested data to work from but using a chrony helps establish a baseline for the round. If for example velocities start spiking up or leveling off you know something's changing and there's some good information to work with to make decisions.

The point about the yield strength of brass was just that there's a difference between the safe working pressure of ammo and the pressure at which the brass starts to fail.

[yobuck]

[QUOTE=TC260;182444]A chronograph is useful because there's a strong correlation between velocity and pressure. Short of having actual pressure testing equipment, the best we can do is correlate velocity with data that is pressure tested. That's why reloading manuals include velocity with their data. Our specific numbers won't be exactly the same but it's a lot more information than just shooting blind until a round sticks. Usually with a wildcat there isn't pressure tested data to work from but using a chrony helps establish a baseline for the round. If for example velocities start spiking up or leveling off you know something's changing and there's some good information to work with to make decisions.

sure theres a strong corelation between velocity and pressure. pressure is what causes velocity.
the gun will tell you all you need to know about pressure and accuracy. most of us load and shoot for accuracy. max velocity is at least usually a secondary value. theres no doubt that at some point velocity gains taper off and adding more powder for the sake of velocity is pointless. that frankly is of little concern for average joe looking for a good load.
chances are what it told you today will be different tomorrow anyway.

[TC260]

Hmmmm, you agree with me about the relationship between pressure and velocity but are arguing against measuring velocity to estimate pressure? Whatever.

[jhelmuth]

There are so many casual shooters who have never used a chrono (and frankly are either intimidated by them or are just too cheap). But once they do and understand how it works to tell them more about their loading, they become big fans. I'm one of those myself (who became a big fan after finally breaking down and deciding that being cheap was expensive). I have saved money and time by having my chrony - and more importantly.... I've become better at handloading because I can "see" how my component choices (and techniques) impact my MV, ES, and SD.

Love my Chrony!