I'm a beginner looking for good information regarding reloading. My goal is to be able to prepare - and eventually develop - my own rounds (6.5 Creedmoor and .270Win) for long range target use.
Right now I'm just trying to get a bead on what set of equipment I should look at to get me started. The reloader appears to be the most expensive single item in the list of gear I will need, so I'm looking at all the alternatives.
I just discovered the Lee Deluxe Automatic Processing Press (APP) Single Stage Press Kit: https://leeprecision.com/app-automat...cessing-press/ @ ~$110 shipped.
I'm still not entirely familiar with all the different types of process involved in brass and bullet prep (still learning!) but to my untrained eye this thing appears to be able to do everything I've come across so far in terms of press work, yet it's just ~20% the cost of something like a Forster co-ax press.
This seems to be too good to be true, so am I missing something?
Its very fast, so I wonder if it will be accurate enough to produce precision rounds - assuming I take my time and don't simply churn? Are there any specific pressing processes that it cannot do? Is it not compatible with certain dies? Or is this really a great, fast, cheap "do it all" press that should do everything I'm likely to need as a beginner?
Ross.
If you are wanting high precision progressive anybrand is not the way to go. I admit my bias but I have forster single stage and k&m arbor press I use a combo of forster , LE wilson and hornady bushing dies.. just my 2 cents.. there are many good precision brands of loading equipment out there.. id definitely recommend the forster coax press to anyoneOriginally Posted by RBT321
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while ted has a point, this is a savage forum and you said 6.5 creed and 270 win for long range.
well first you need to define your version of "long range"
no one shoots 6.5 creed in benchrest, it is shot in some steel matches
270 win is jack o'connors favorite HUNTING round...NOT A LONG RANGE TARGET ROUND.
you can load precision ammo on some progressive presses....lee is not one of them.
the "Lee Classic Cast Single Stage Press" is an excellent press and will build great ammo.
we really need more info to give qualified advice...like
define long distance
type of shooting
what are the rifles
First of all, get yourself a good reloading manual and read it well if you have not already done so. It will answer a lot of your questions about equipment.
I'm kinda old school. Regarding presses for someone new to reloading bottleneck cases, I would suggest one of the sturdy, single stage presses that are produced by all of the major reloading tool manufacturers. It will become one of your most important pieces of equipment. Look at all of the offerings, examine their features, price, and read the reviews. You will find that every single one of them is owned by multiple members of this forum. Whatever press you choose, it probably won't be the last one you buy if you really get into this hobby. Many reloaders will end up owning multiple presses for performing different tasks or just because they want to try something new.
I prefer to have a turret press on my bench for the convenience of having all of my dies installed and ready to work. Extra turrets allow quick changes for reloading multiple calibers. Mine also does a great job with higher volume production of handgun cartridges. With that said, I started with an inexpensive RCBS single stage press nearly 30 years ago.
Here are some good classic presses to look at. There are many others at higher or lower cost to suit your budget.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013033452?pid=513567
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013008991?pid=317831
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013020843?pid=814175
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013069017?pid=856890
inspite of everything you hear, i started on a turret press and did not own a single stage press until i have been loading for over 20 years.
ot was a lee....BUT 9MM pistol ammo not rifle, jumped to a dillon 550 for rifle.
I really am just starting out - less than 50 rounds under my belt so far! I was offered an Axis II in 270 just this week for just $50, and took it. I put a cheap 6-24x50 scope on it and I have begun practising with it initially and I've been hitting 1.25" groups at 200Y already, but the 270 is really only going to be for plinking, I'm not planning to do anything more than that with it.
I'm getting a 12 FV 6.5CM, and that is the rifle I intend to really learn on. I intend to modify it into something that will hopefully stretch out to reliably hit metal at 1,000 yards+. While I might reload some 270's for the Axis, the 6.5CM is the one I really want to concentrate my reloading questions around. Maybe in the future I'll upgrade to a much better competition rifle, but I've got a lot to learn before I want to drop $000's - I'm not even sure how addicted I'll become to this sport yet! As for ranges, I'm just starting out but I want to build up my range as quickly as my skills allow. I have a local 600 yard range, and in the next county over there is a mile+ range available for me to grow into.
I'm planning to practice as much as I can but with the shortage in ammo right now, I'd like a way to reuse my brass. I also understand that sooner or later preparing my own rounds is one of the best ways to improve my accuracy, so that's another reason why I'm interested in learning the reloading skills early in my education.
I figure whatever equipment I buy now for reloading should last me at least a year, during which time I'll try to put a fair number of rounds into steel. I intend to learn a lot about all the different processes. When I'm eventually ready to consider upgrading, I'll have a much better idea of what I actually want from my gear and I'll be willing to spend more at that time. Right now I just want something inexpensive, which will serve me fairly well as a foundation for my learning.
Would the Lee APP do a reasonably good job? I don't need expert level results yet, just something that's good enough to learn my core skills with. I don't want to go spend 2, 3 or 5 times as much until I have sufficient experience under my belt to know what I actually want from my reloading bench. I just need to learn the basics and I need something that will allow me to put a few thousand rounds down the range over the next year. Later, I can upgrade to better gear.
Will this gear list get me going? Am I missing anything obvious?
$75 Lee Deluxe APP press
$30 Lee Bench Plate
$20 Powder Measuring Scale (no-name, Amazon)
$80 LE Wilson Case Trimmer/Mouth Chamfer Tool
$10 Case Lube
$-- Digital Caliper (already got)
$28 LE Wilson Case Gauge
$41 Hornady 546289 Die Set 2 6.5
$28 Hornady 044090 Microjust Seating Stem
+ Bullets, Casings, Primers and H-4350 powder.
And Bill: I'll go hunt up a decent book tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion! Any recommended titles I should look for?
Ross.
You need to ask yourself some serious questions. Are you planning on competing in long range shooting of some type? Can you pay the price up front? If you can say yes to that now the answer is easy, get the expensive and custom stuff. What the other benchrest and long range shooters in here use.
Better would be to attend a local match and ask around about trying it out. Some people may even have some decent gear you can get at a discounted price, or even on loan. You will also get plenty of advice on how to proceed, including picking a suitable caliber rifle.
If you cannot say you will be competing but are just interested in long range shooting, then it opens up the 'field' a little.
First, I am not a benchrest shooter, I shoot at targets for fun and 0.5MOA is what I can shoot, on average.
Second, I do shoot at longer ranges, 600 to 1000yd quite a bit, but, I am happy with MOA groups at those ranges.
Third, almost all my reloading stuff is from Lee and has been for about 40 years. The Lee APP seems to be a decent press and I may have bought one if I didn't already have the O frame press (which I got used for $25 at a local gun shop) and a Loadmaster (20 yrs old).
So, if you don't mind upgrading later on, the Lee App is a decent press and will make ammo good enough for learning about the process. Even if you do decide to go with something better later, the Lee will still do plenty of tasks for you. Having more than one press is sometimes very convenient.
Bill, could you explain why are these better than the Lee APP?
Ross.
Sorry, I was writing while you posted.
Yes, the Lee will do what you want. :)
I know its not a helpful answer, but I really don't know what I want to do yet. I want to try it all and see which style(s) suit(s) me :) I figure the basic 12 FV gives me a cheap platform to learn with, and it seems to be eminently upgradable (scope, stock, barrel etc) to take me further as I get better - I think it will be good enough to take me to the point where I can decide whether I want to get *really* serious about the sport - or not.
So in your scenario above, no, I'm not currently prepared to drop $000's on this until I give it a year of practice first - but I want to learn as much as I can in that year!
I play darts for a bar team and I enjoy the competition and camaraderie in our local community (at least I did until Covid). I also do a bit of archery where I really enjoy honing my skills and always trying to up my game, but I don't compete with anyone there, so far that's just been for fun.
I don't yet know which direction my shooting will break - I want to try some bench shooting, I want to try some prone shooting. I'll probably try a competiton or two and just try not to come last! :) I want to try a bit of everything to see what works best for me.
Long term, I have to say I'm really impressed by the ELR guys. Watching the pro's, yeah, that's something I might like to aim for ('scuse the pun). I need to see if I've got any real skill first, and see just how serious I want to get, but "dayum" - some of the shots they make are astonishing and I would love to be able to do such a thing - one day.
But small steps at first :)
Ross.
do not by cheap stuff now...just wasted money in the long term.
the press i suggested or buy a used STEEL/IRON press.
lee low end alum/pot metal stuff sucks in the real world.
skip the plate spend it on the press.
skip the case gauge( use your rifle chamber) use the money on the press
buy a lee hand case trimmer for now...spend the money on the press
( yes the wilson is correct but for low volume single tifle the lee will do fine)
that is almost 200 available for the press.
one sale at 140 right now
buy 2 reloading manuals and read then re-read...
understand the process and why.
no beer no tv no wife..peace and quite
I can't say that they are better or worse. I interpreted your original question as asking for general recommendations on getting started. As I re-read it, I see you were keying in on the Lee APP which I am not as familiar with. It will certainly meet your needs to get started reloading.
All of the bullet manufacturers and several reloading tool manufacturers publish reloading manuals and update them periodically. The load data changes but the how to chapters generally stay the same with each new edition. I started out with the Speer manual years ago and it has served me well. I also have a Berger manual.
when it comes to actual load data, most companies have data on line.
a word of caution, ANYONE CAN PUBLISH A HOW TO ON THE INTERNET/ you have no idea what their experience level is. run from most of it.
( the same applies here take all with a grain of salt.....for the record i am a competition shooter from 50 yards to 2000 yards in group and score and one steel match from 875 to 2000. local and national wins.....BUT ONLY 2 savage rifles...neither are competition rifles)
Do NOT buy the Lee APP for loading rifle rounds, especially not for a long action rifle. Don't get me wrong, it's a great little press, but it's primary purpose is brass PREP, not loading, and it's much more appropriate for handgun ammo IMO. That said, I load 9mm and .45 ACP on mine, it's 3-4 times faster than with my Rock Chucker. But for rifle rounds, I move back to my Rock Chucker. Way more leverage, which means I don't have to work as hard. Much beefier overall, so less flex, which means more consistent ammo, at least in theory. And it'll handle just about anything, certainly anything I'll ever want to load and shoot. I prefer single stage presses, time isn't a factor for me, and I enjoy loading. But I can and do get frequent interruptions, with a single stage it's easy to pick up where I left off, I'm afraid things could go sideways with a progressive.
If I was starting out again, I'd try very hard to find some friends that already reload, but that use different equipment, get a chance to try before you buy. The starter kits are a pretty good deal, and will get you going with a minimum of fuss, but we all have different preferences. I like my Hornady powder measure better than my Uni-flow, I hate my Hornady priming tool, my RCBS is much better, but my Frankford Arsenal is my favorite. The list goes on, but I think you get the idea. That said, in your situation, I'd probably do what I did and get the Rock Chucker Deluxe kit, or whatever it's called now. I comes with everything you need to get started except dies and components, and will load anything. As you get more experienced, you'll figure out what works for YOU, and can pick and choose upgraded or additional gear as you need it. There's no need to spend a ton of money up front, especially on a new hobby that you might discover isn't really your thing, and trust me, reloading is a hobby unto itself. Good luck, and have fun. Later.
Dave
Thanks for all the help so far guys. It's informative to see the different opinions and reasoning behind them. I'm going to take Bill & Mike's advice to do some serious reading (and re-reading) from reputable sources, before making a final decision on what to get. As work has been kicking my butt recently (well over 400 hours in the last four weeks!) I expect it will be a few weeks before I'm properly read-up on this. I'm sure I'll be back, asking more questions once I'm a bit more informed :)
Ross.
The 6.5 creedmoor is a great cartridge to start with. immediate success even with a crosswind.
Neck and by proxy the bullet runout is critical. After a few firings it may be time to anneal if your groups start to open up.
Find a powder scale that will repeat double check your loads.
A Lee Classic is not a bad place to start. None of the big name iron single stages will fail you.
As a beginner I will say again, always look for neck bullet Run Out and figure out why it is there.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
6.5 is so easy to load... I have a simple Lee Breech Lock press and Lee dies and it works great. Go buy some Berger rounds to break in your rifle and you will have fire formed Lapua cases ready for loading. 41-43 grains of H4350 behind a 140 ELD-M usually works wonders.
I've never used the lee auto progressive but 2 of my friends have and they wish they would have save and went with either the hornady, rcbs or Dillon. One of the guys has very good machining skills and is very mechanically inclined and after ALOT of tweaking, making parts he was able to get his lee kicking out fairly reliably.. id talk to other lee AP owners and see what they say but from what ive seen with my eyes, the are low priced for a reason. Another thing to consider (and this is just my opinion) if your just starting out on reloading, single stage is the best way to learn because you learn independently every step of the process plus if down the road you migrate to crafting ammo as opposed to just making ammo, single stage is imo the best way to go. I do have a hornady AP that I mass produce like 9mm and range brass 5.56 for stock up and plinking but all my group chasing ammo is done on forster.single stage and k&m arbor. Again all this is just was i have learned over the years and others may have learned things I didn't so I won't claim my way as the gospel.
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"Beginner seeking advice on first press"
Short answer is "RCBS Rock Chucker" In your case (pun intended)
the new Supreme model "IV" with the longer opening.
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
Yep, I would not recommend a Lee Loadmaster to many people. It is a bit finicky to work with and took a couple of mods, but, it works well for me. It is not a Dillon and is not priced like one either. Yep, if I wanted serious volume I'd buy a Dillon 760 or 1100.
The only problem I had with the Breechlock Pro is cartridge length. The longest cartridge they recommend it for is the .223. For the .223 and pistol cartridges it worked really well. I loaded .308 on mine but it was a real PITA.
I use a Lee aluminum single stage (Challenger?) a lot for heavier work. Bullet sizing, light swaging, case reforming, etc. It has held up very well.
Some people will tell you buy once cry once. I am glad I did not listen or I never would have bought the Lee Turret press back in the late 70's when they came out. I'd still have that one if I had not donated it to a kid who was just starting out.
If I were to go to something different now for accuracy I'd go to the Forster Coax.
I've wondered how that new supreme is, its kinda supposed to be their answer to the forster coax. Id be curious to know 1st hand how it performs.. had a rock chucker for years final wore the ram channel out of round so every time it cammed over it would kick the ram sideways a few thou but dang it took 25 years to get it to wear out.. it was definitely a good press
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^^^^^^This^^^^^
"Short answer is "RCBS Rock Chucker" . Nuf said!!
And I might add, I wore out a couple of Lee presses doing 100s of mil spec 5.56 and 7.62 brass.
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
Another ^^^^. Purchased my first press in the mid-80s, a Rock Chucker II, and I'm still using it. Used Rock Chucker's are on eBay all the time and don't skip checking your local Craigslist too. Scored a very nice original Rock Chucker for $65 off eBay about a year ago.
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