How accurate is Savage out of the box?

[82boy]

The Rate of Twist on Savage .243 is 1 in 9.25"
I have never read where the .243 will stabilize a projectile effectively past 105gr.

Others (On this site.) and I have had good luck with 107 SMK in them. I shot some nice groups out at 1000 yards with them.

[chiefkerdog]

Well my factory Fclass 6.5x284 shoots great but got out done by another Savage shooter.
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...atch-5-Results

[TRguy]

Others (On this site.) and I have had good luck with 107 SMK in them. I shot some nice groups out at 1000 yards with them.

Were you shooting a factory barrel at 9.25" ROT, heavy contour?, Sporter?, FCLass? I never said it can't be done...But on the average....

....and when I say "read" I mean published work or data based work from a known writer or manufacturer, not what some bloke on some forum writes which may or may not be worth anything.

It's TRUE I read it on the internets, said George Bush. Only gets worse if you believe what the current marxists in chief says. You know, Prezzy Odummer.

[skypilot]

Hi all. I didn't get a chance to shoot the savage today. To much stuff to do. I hope I will get to that tomorrow.

TRguy I don't know where you got that I only used one powder. I have used six to date and have ordered others to try.

As far as going to a lighter bullet, I will try that last. Because I use Sierra 6mm 100gr in three other guns, 2 rifles and one hand gun. I stock about a thousand of them. I don't want to have to stock other bullets if I don't have to. Very short on space. I reload for every thing I shoot. So if I can work out a load that will work with the same bullet then that is one less thing to stock.

My feeling is that most modern rifles will shoot factory ammo,( Remington, Federal and Winchester all sell 100gr loadings for the 243 ) and should shoot a one inch five shot group at one hundred yards. My Savage will not do it. So I tried reloads, lots and lots of reloads. I am not new to reloading. I have been reloading for over thirty years.

Yes this is my first Savage. I used a Warne picatinny 20moa tactical base and Burris xtreme tactical rings for the scope.

It is my understanding that Savage uses a 1 in 10 twist in there rifles and that will stabilize bullets up to 120 gr, so the 100gr shouldn't be a problem.

Now if I have to re-barrel this rifle to make it shoot, this will be my last savage. If I had bought it I would sell it. My wife got it for me so I have to make it work. I will call Savage if I can't get it to shoot and see what they will do about it. If they do nothing I will re-barrel it to make it work and that will be the end of me and Savage. You all have a great day. I will get back to you all after I shoot it.

I believe that is a 1/9.25 twist barrel. If it is it won't stabilize 100gr consistantly. As I said it will probably shoot 70 gr well, but if you are determined to shoot what you wish rather than what the barrel is designed for that's a frustrating road to take. Savage and other manufactures "design and build" around a test cartridge that is popular for the caliber they are building. I don't believe the Model 11 was barreled for 100 gr.


It should list the bullet Savage tested with for that caliber in the owners manual. I will see if I can determine what they used for the .243. Mine loves the 100 gr Win X2432 factory, but is a 40+ yr old gun.


EDIT: I found his on page 24 of my owners manual and on SavageArms.com under manuals and accutrigger .pdf.
Here is a text copy of the content.

FOR MORE INFORMATION, PLEASE VISIT OUR WEB SITE AT: WWW.SAVAGEARMS.COM
Bullet specifications and trajectories are available directly from the ammunition manufacturer.
The following table lists the bullet weights used for 100 yard targeting evaluation at Savage Arms.
Performance may vary based on brand/type of ammunition, individual characteristics of the firearm,
and/or shooting conditions.
USE ONLY THE CORRECT AMMUNITION THAT IS STAMPED ON THE SIDE OF THE BARREL.
THE USE OF RELOADS, HANDLOADS, MILITARY SURPLUS, OR ANY OTHER COMMERCIAL /
NONCOMMERCIAL AMMUNITION NOT MANUFACTURED TO SAAMI (SPORTING ARMS AND
AMMUNITION MANUFACTURERS’ INSTITUTE, INC.)/ ANSI (AMERICAN NATIONAL
STANDARDS INSTITUTE) SPECIFICATIONS WILL VOID THE WARRANTY.
Caliber
Bullet Weight
(Grains)
220 Swift
Federal Premium 52 grain Sierra Match King BTHP
223 Remington
Federal 69 grain Sierra Match King BTHP
204 Ruger
Hornady 32 grain V Max
22-250 Remington
Federal V Shock 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip
243 Winchester
Federal 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip
25-06 Remington
Federal 90 grain Varmint HP
270 Winchester
Federal 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip
270 Winchester Short Magnum
Winchester 130 grain Ballistic Silver Tip
7mm-08 Remington
Federal 140 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip
7mm Remington Magnum
Federal 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip
7mm Remington Winchester
Short Magnum
Winchester 160 grain Fail Safe
300 Winchester Magnum
Federal 165 grain Partition Gold
300 Winchester Short Magnum
Winchester 150 grain Ballistic Silver Tip
308 Winchester
Federal 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP
30-06 Springfield
Federal 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP
325 Winchester Short Magnum

338 Winchester Magnum
Nosler 210 grain Partition

END OF REFERENCE MATERIAL..........................

If it is a 1 year old Savage Factory out of the box .243, it is probably the 70 gr. barrel. If it is that barrel, stretching a 30 gr bullet weight from 70-100 gr is a recipe for frustration and failure. Anyway you have enough information now from all the postings to correct any problem.

[rjtfroggy]

I have and shoot a mod. 11 sporter barreled 243,it is my hunting rifle so I really never looked for a load for bench rest accuracy.I also use 100gr. speer bullets pushed by IMR 4895 CCI primers loaded in the middle of the load range from the speer manual and it is always .75" or better @100 yards, usually the first two in the same hole with the third just outside.
The rifle is a later 1990's model 1:9.5 twist no accu anything, the only change was to a Boyds laminate thumbhole stock but it shot this way before the stock change even with the tupperware.I never shoot rapid fire or more than three shots at a time and let it cool in between strings.
It will stabalize that 100 gr.

[Ishooter]

rjtfroggy I am with you. This rifle should shoot 100gr bullets. Shilen barrels lists the max of 120 gr for a 1 in 10 twist for a 243 barrel. skypilot said that Savage uses a 1 in 9.5 in there barrels and that is faster by a half inch so I don't see a problem with the barrel not stabilizing 100gr bullets. I will go with Shilen barrels information, they have been making barrels for along time and have a very good reputation for shooting well.

IMR4895 is one of the powders that just was delivered today. The other one was TAC, I ordered that for my 223. I will load up some bullets with that and try them tomorrow.

skypilot the information you posted is what they used to test the rifle not what they are saying has to be used in the rifle. (The following table lists the bullet weights used for 100 yard targeting evaluation at Savage Arms.)

You all have a great night and I will get back to you tomorrow after I shoot it.

[TRguy]

skypilot said that Savage uses a 1 in 9.5 in there barrels and that is faster by a half inch so I don't see a problem with the barrel not stabilizing 100gr bullets.

You misquoted skypilot, he typed:

I believe that is a 1/9.25 twist barrel. If it is it won't stabilize 100gr consistantly.

...and skypilot is correct the Rate of Twist is 1 in 9.25" for the .243 on current production Savage Rifles. You can check the Savage website or call them yourself.

rjtfroggy referenced a rifle made in the 90s and he didn't seem totally for sure on the ROT.

Anyways let us know how your groups tighten up, pics are always good.

[skypilot]

Ok, about my posting.... re: Savage's 100yd factory TARGET evaluation at 100yds was listed as being done with 70 gr NBT. If "Savages shoot less than MOA out of the box" AND Savage factory does their .243 caliber testing for their 1/9.25 twist barrels @ 100 yds with 70 gr NBT, it might be worth trying what the Original Equipment Manufacturer used.

The texas barrel maker you mentioned uses a button as does Savage. The Button rifling by the very process can be off quite a bit on rate of twist. A button rifled barrel listed as 1/10 may actually be a 1/9.25 or 1/9.5. If you want to bet the bank on what twist a barrel says it is buy a Kriegar or Bartleins cut barrel.

Anyway, most of us are just trying to help you get where you want to be with the .243.

Just keep this in mind..... a hen can TRY all she wants, to hatch a golf ball, but it ain't gonna happen.

[Ishooter]

Hi all. I got to shoot the Savage today. There must have been some thing wrong with the way the rifle was put together because she is shooting much better now. I used a load of 42gr of Reloader 22 and the 100 gr Sierra. The first group was 7/8 of an inch so was the second one and the last group was 5/8 of an inch. Not bad for a rifle that wasn't shooting under a inch and a half with the same load three days before. Thank you all very much for your time and information. Now I can go back to trying to find a good load for this rifle. You all have a great day. Oh, I may be looking for a Savage 223 in the near future. I think this time I will get the one with out all the acu stuff. As I said before you all have a great day and thanks a lot for all the information and help.

[skypilot]

Good deal, sounds like success and appears to be shooting tight. Can't wait to see the results of a good handload.

[mpsmithvs]

My Savage 116/111 shot 1 inch moa with the Tupper wear stock. I ordered a Boyds Laminated and set it up with the intention to pillar bed and full bed the action. Six shots into the break-in of the Boyds stock I had a 3/8 and 1/2 in group off bags. I put in in the case and made it the seasons hunting rife. I'll be bedding it after January. So mine was pretty accurate. I did do a load work up after 40 rounds of break-in but by 15 rounds I knew my powder and bullet. My hand loads are typically a ragged hole or nearly a single hole once I bed. It continues to get better the more I shoot it. On a white clean cold barrel first shot it tends to be 3" above my normal POI and on my 4th shot right back on the original POI. All shots coming straight down a vertical line from 12 O'clock. So I don't over clean it and always hunt with a fouled barrel to make that first shot count and not have to worry about hold under. Follow the great gouge on this page and it should do better. Sometimes it's just a small thing over looked or just the load bullet distance off the lands etc. I'd work on it a while before I gave up. Usually the .243 is pretty tight right out of the box but every barrel, action and set up is unique. It will be obvious when you find the sweet spot. I's probably there somewhere.

mps

[emtrescue6]

I am glad you got your rifle shooting. There's absolutely no reason that rifle shouldn't reliably shoot the 100g and higher bullets...as a 1:9.25 twist is faster than a 1:10 (which we know will reliably handle 100g bullets). The only think I will add to this conversation is that not all bullets are created equal...I have 4 different .243's they have several different twists (1:10, 1:9.5, 1:12) and they all eat 100g bullets very well (even the 1:12)....but they don't all eat the same 100g bullets well...3 of them really like Noslers 100g Solid Bases (they don't make this bullet anymore...thank goodness I stockpiled some 20 years ago)....the 4th, which is a Remington 700 BDL and the most recent acquisition to the stable...doesn't seem to like much of anything over 80g in any brand except for Speer....I had some older 100g Speer softpoint solid base bullets it eats very well (1/2 MOA). I'd say you are lucky to have so many rifles like the same bullet, as that's not always the case.

[AZ_GUN_NUT]

Hi all. I got to shoot the Savage today. There must have been some thing wrong with the way the rifle was put together because she is shooting much better now. I used a load of 42gr of Reloader 22 and the 100 gr Sierra. The first group was 7/8 of an inch so was the second one and the last group was 5/8 of an inch. Not bad for a rifle that wasn't shooting under a inch and a half with the same load three days before. Thank you all very much for your time and information. Now I can go back to trying to find a good load for this rifle. You all have a great day. Oh, I may be looking for a Savage 223 in the near future. I think this time I will get the one with out all the acu stuff. As I said before you all have a great day and thanks a lot for all the information and help.

Glad to hear you got it shooting tighter. Please tell us what you did to correct the issue, you stated there must have been something wrong with the way the rifle was put together?